Browse:DIAGNOSIS (Volume 1, entries 545–642)
DIAGNOSIS
Volume 1, entries 545–642. Source context: THE DOCTORS AT WORK: REPORTS FROM LAYMEN. Entries listed under this heading in the source volume.
Entries
Entry 545
Now in case a man's child - somebody has caused a man's child to wander about from the house, won't stay home, yo'll see the 'fect of it aroun' de fire- place. Dere'll come a drove of ants, black antses, all on de mantelpiece comin' in droves, some goin' an' some comin', an' will cross each othah this way, cross each othah goin' to an' fro. Well, people have oftentime wondered whut does that mean. Yore child will wander aroun' an' can't stay home. Well, now there's remedy fo' that. The remedy is, if yo' would like to heah it, take some salt - Epsom salts, some quinine an' black peppah an' mix it together three days continuous, an' sprinkle it all on de edge of de mantelpiece all aroun' it an' those antses will leave. Any child mind will become settled.
(Well, why are those ants there? Have you any idea?)
Well, it's a sign your child's mind is not right - it is unsettled. Where dey come from ah don't know, but dey will cease to come.
(Well, what causes that? Somebody has done something to the child?)
Somebody have done something to de child to cause de child not to stay home an' aggravate de parents, keep de parents confused an' dey don't know whut's de matter with de child. He will come home an' his mind become settled fo' a while. Event'lv de chile go clean off an' won't stay at home none at all - dat's a sign of dat.
Entry 546
This was in Caroline [County, Virginia]. This is a cunjuring thing. It Was two sisters. One sister took the other sister's husband. So this sister had a spell put on the sister who took the husband. So she became suddenly ill and sent for her son and he came. And she grew so ill they sent for the doctor and he came, but did not do any good. So finally, the son sent for a neighbor and the neighbor thought she was going to die so she sent for the older son. And when he came his suggestion was to send for an old colored woman who's supposed to be a cunjure. So they sent for her. And she came in a buggy with her grandson driving. And she called for the woman to come out to the buggy that was sick. And they said she could not come. So she insisted on her coming. But she said she could go anywhere in the house except to the front door. Every time she moved toward the front door she got worse. So this cunjure woman got out of her buggy and stood at de front gate opening her bag of fixtures, and she took out a ball about the size of a apple - a wood ball, and asked for a hoe, after which she talked to the ball and said, "Go where I send you and when you have found the spot stand still." So she tossed de ball. It went a few steps and stopped right in front of the front door. And she told the boy to dig two feet right under that ball and there that he would find a bottle and bring it to me, which he did. So she said to her [sick woman's] son, "Go, tell your mother to come to the front door." So she got up and came immediately. She didn't say what was in the bottle she found. And the cunjure said to her, "Let your sister'S husband alone." [Near Fredericksburg, Va., (71), by hand; in Caroline Co.,1886.]
Entry 547
We had a team, the name of it was Blue Caydex - a baseball team, an' we had chalunge of a very hard team, an' we were told to go to an ol' lady, that she could give us somepin that we would win. Anyhow, we goes an' tries the luck out. An' she gave us a little bottle - cut glass. It had eighteen little balls an' somepin [a liquid] into it. One [group of nine balls] wus dark, an' the others wus light, an' they were representin' each team, you see; an' when one of the nine would go down to the bottom, nine would come up to the top. That wus representin' the teams, one goin' down, an' one comin' up wus us. An' she told us to take that an' rub a little bit of it in the sand [of the baseball diamond] before we entered de game. An' we did lak she said an' we didn't have any trouble either.
Entry 548
Dat's one part ah nevah did believe in, Captain, ah have tuh tell yo' 'bout dat. Ah've heard - a man have come tuh me an' told me that since ah wus a married man in mah home dat folks had done somepin to.me - ah wus in hard luck, an' if ah would give him so much cash he could go an' git me - put somepin - a toadfrog an' de tail of redhead scorpion - an' ah could avoid all de troubles dat ah wus goin' have in mah home, sech as. An' then, too, once when ah first married, a man come tuh mah home an' claimed to be.a root man - a man could give han's. He said to me - ah hol' de Bible on mah desk - ah'd comed in from mah job and was there settin' down talkin' wit mah wife - he said that someone wus goin' git between me an' mah wife - he could take dat Bible an' make dat Bible dance. He said, "Now, this yo' Bible - yo' bought dis Bible." "Ah didn't bought it." He said, "No? Yo' bought it an' yo' present it to yore wife." An' he said, "Anyway, anybody is working against yo' an' against yore wife," said, "ah kin make dis Bible tell us by dancing, as I call to it." So I set there an' listen awhile after de man talked. Yo' know how a fellow when he don't believe whut yo' saying. Ah says, "Well, now yo' come with han's. I understand dat yo's a man go roun' givin' han's." Ah said, "Well, ah bought dat Bible as yo' say an' present to mah wife. Ah did, but so fur as de Bible dancing, ah don' believes dat any man on earth kin make a Bible dance. But ah do believe dis," ah said, "ah know dat ah kin make yo' dance." An' ah set dere awhile an' he commence talkin'.about a fo'k - he could take a fo'k an' put dat fo'k - two fo'ks in de Bible an' talk to it an' it would dance, a natural dance with a man, an' he say if ah didn't believe, he could make it cut up a jig, jes' lak an ole-time jig-dance. People used to say jiggin'. An' he said he could make dat Bible do that. So ah didn't give him time to make de Bible do it. Ah jes' tole him, ah said; "Now, listen, jes' wait'll ah come out in de road an' ah'll find out can't yo' dance de same as de Bible." An' he leaved. (In preaching and getting around the country, meeting people, do you find that belief in that stuff is dying out - the belief in this conjuration and witchcraft is dying out? Or is there as much of it now as there was when you were a boy?) No sir, not as much, now as it was when ah wus young Well, about as much, but then folks don't partake of it as bad as dey did then. Yo' know, 'way back dere, folks wus a little mo' dumber den dey is now, an' anything lak dat would pretty near - a fellah would take on to him ["take him in"].
Entry 549
They tell me now, if any of de family git killed, like you [want to] find out who did it - let me see how I'll work that thing. Yes. If somebody got killed, yo' take de Bible an' you'll read In de Bible, in the - I can't call de [reference], "When ah pass by yo', ah saw yore blood polluted an' ah said unto thee, 'Thou [thy] soul shall live'" = ["And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yeah, I said unto thee when thou Wast in thy blood, Live." Eze.16:6.] At the same time you'll take a garter - any kind of garter like womens wear round dere laig, or if yo' have dese heah wrist ones like yo' wear on yore sleeve to hold it up, yo'll take dat. An' yo'll put it in de Bible an' yo'll hold yore finger on that garter wit a dime in it, an' when yo' read dat thing den agin an' cali dat fellah's name, repeat his name five time. When yo' turn ovah dat garter an' it done slipped out from under dat dime, yo' put dat buckle on dere - yo' see dat garter got a buckle on dere - yo' put dat garter - dat dime done slipped out from under dat buckle as yo' call his name. Well, den, now lak if yo' say, "Will Johnson over dat or "Sam Williams when yo' strike his name. Yo' might possibly call several names, but when yo' strike de right name yo' watch dat dime - it'll slip out from under dat buckle. Dey tell me dat'll certainly find out whoevah it is, if a individual have done it an' nobody know who it is.
Entry 550
Take an' pick - pick yore left, dis fingah right heah.
(The finger next to the little finger on the left hand.)
Yes, an' put it - take a key an' put it in de Bible an' de place where yo' turn dat book open, if it turns to "Now, an' it came to pass," whatevah yo' want tuh happen will happen.
(Where do you put this blood?)
On de key. Yo' put de key in de Bible an' jes' - well, yo' don' be lookin'. Yo' know, yo' drop de blood on it jest anywhere in dere an' then yo' place that key in dere. Den yo' turn open de book an' if yo' open it to a place whatevah yo' - yo' already make yore wish or whatevah yo' find out, whether it's goin' tuh happen or not - an' if it comes, "An' den it came to pass" or "now it came to pass it'll happen, but if yo' don't turn to that, it won't.
(The blood is put on the key, though, isn't it?)
Yes, it's put on de key an' it placed in de Bible.
Entry 551
You kin take a Bible and tie a white string aroun' it, any kin'a cord string aroun' it, and lash a key onto it - whenever you tie dat string aroun' dere let de key be hangin' onto dat string. And take de Bible, jis' like you take de Bible up - jis' like dis here, like dis is de string and de key is fastened on dat [demonstrates - lifts up on the string, lifting up the Bible], and you say, "If Sich-and-Sich - if anybody has did anything to me, let me know by movin'." And see, dat Bible will be right still, it'll stay right still if dere's nothin' wrong wid jeh; but if 'tis anything wrong wid jeh, it'll swing jis' like dis here [demonstrates - Bible swings back and forth]. If you say, "If dere's anything here on me, swing and drop." Then it'll swing and fall. De Bible will fall. It'll slip right outch your han' regardless of how tight choo hold it - it'll come out. But after dat it swings like dat and let choo know dere's somebody has done somepin, dat'll let yo' know whether to go to a doctor a medical doctor either [or] a root doctor. And after you do dat, why, you kin go to de root doctor and tell him dat you ain't feeling - [you do feel] like somebody has did somepin to you, and then he'll know 'zackly what, you know, start doin' for yeh.
Entry 552
I've know a woman to do that.
(What?)
Take a little girl's photograph - a little grow awful fast, you see. And she disliked her and she shoved her finger at her and told her, says, "I'll keep even with your daughter" [see Bad mouth in Index]. And she go into her mother's house and it was a friend of her mother's, you see, see, that had her photo on a tintype, and she'd taken this photo and she buried it with de face down. See. And buried it with de face down but before she buried it, she got her some feathers.
(What kind of feathers?)
Turkey feathers, just turkey feathers, and she got those turkey feathers and she cross-laid those turkey feathers.
(How do you mean cross-laid them?)
Just like my hand is laying 'cross my fingers there now [demonstrates].
(Made a sort of X?)
Yes, sir.
(All right.)
And she laid those things down there, and then she covered them, see.
(Well now, what did she do - lay them in the ground with the picture on that?)
The picture on that and then she put some over de picture, and covered 'em up and she stuck one right straight up in de center of it, after she covered it, in de shape of a grave - she stuck one right straight up in the center of it.
(One of what?) [I knew what, but I want a definite statement from her.]
One of those feathers.
(I see. All right.)
Right straight up and down in de center of it. Well, the girl then, she began in the next ten days lingering. They'd taken this girl to the doctor and they'd taken the girl to the doctor. The more they d taken her to the doctor, the more doctor medicine she take, the worse she get. Finally, it was a fellow come along and told 'um - old colored fellow, he come along and told this girl's mother that she was hurt and she never would get over it. See. And told her one of her friends did it, and told her to give him a dollar and he would cure her. So she done what he told her [gave him a dollar]. So when she done that the old man set something at the door like a black cat. See. Set that thing at the door and he went to saying magic and something, calling de Lord's name, and something just fell all out of that thing just like shots, running all over dat house. [In- formant now confuses logical order by giving conclusion before final details.] And that little girl got up and she walked - she hadn't been up walking - she got up and walked and she got all right. Well, this old man then, see - and he told her, "Now, the one what hurt your daughter will be here, but she'll be here before she [daughter] get out de bed."
[The culprit would soon appear but the victim would not become well until later.]
Shore enough she [culprit] walked in, and when she walked in, her husband [not the culprit's] took a wing of a chicken, with the bone in it, and hit her right in de forehead, and when he hit her in de forehead, it got de blood from her, and he taken some of her blood and give to dis man, and dis man throwed [daughter's] spell on hog he had out in the lot [cf. healing of demoniac in Mk.5:1, Mt.8:28, Lk.8:26; see Transference in Index.]
(On a hog?)
On a hog he had out in the lot - the hog went crazy - Just runned - just hollered and just went plumb crazy.
(Where did that happen?)
That was up here at Kings - right up here at Kings' Crossing.
(I see - right near Vicksburg?)
Yassuh.
(How long ago did it happen?)
Well, that's been about four years ago. (I see. Now, what do you mean something like a black cat? Was it something alive?) No, it wasn't alive, but it was in the shape of a black cat, you see, just cloth - showed up just like a black cat, just like you got on dat black coat dere [informants frequently mentioned my black coat - see Coat, my black, in Index], but he had it in the shape of a black cat and he set it on the floor. You see.
(And something fell out of it?)
Yes sir - something come out of it just like little balls - just like little shots, and run all around over de floor.
(I see. Well, did he find this thing that was buried or not?)
This woman brought it - this woman come and brought it - she come and brought it. See.
(I mean, did he find that stuff that this woman had buried?)
That this woman had buried on the girl? Well, she come,: see. Well, she come to visit dis woman dat morning before the child get up. She had it in her hand. She had went.and took it up. See, this man had been there, you see, he made her take it up, you see. And she took it and when her husband hit her, she dropped it out of her hand.
(What did that man hit her on the forehead for? Who told him to do that?)
This man what had cured the child.
(Told him to do that?)
Yassuh.
(Use the chicken wing?)
To use the chicken wing and hit her with the bone of it, so he could get her blood so he could throw the spell on a hog. (I see. Do you know how he put the spell on the hog?) [Fortunately she does not know, the story would have been too complete.] Well, I see the hog hollering and hootin' - never see do nothin' like that.
(I see.)
Entry 553
Take an' go, not exactly [to] a crossroads, yo' know; roads run lak a T - one jes' run dis way, up, an' dis one come up to it lak dat, yo' know, a T road lak. An' yo' go in that road, lemme see - if dis man wus shot, dey use his coat. Carry it to dis T road an' take his hand an' reach down underneath de coat right in de middle, back of this man's coat, an' take sand an' sprinkle it all ovah dis coat, an' den walk back an' call dis man's name three times an' de coat will lift up off de ground lak dat. An' he ask 'im, say, "Did a certain person - John or Jack, kill yo'?" An' dey say that coat will move ovah in the sand, and dey say when de coat move ovah on dat side, dey say on yore way back to de house, why yo' meets de man who killed dis person. (You put this coat right out there where these two roads come together - put it on the ground and you take some dirt from under the coat and put the dirt on top of the coat? And then you ask the questions?) Yes.
(And if the coat goes in what direction?)
If the coat come up lak that.
(Goes up in the air?)
Yeah, not far, yo' know; jes' lak if yo' push it up lak that [demonstrates].
(Lifts up?)
Yeah, an' say yo' walk back off from it a lil' piece an' call this man's name dat dey say shot dis person, an' dey say dat de coat will move ovah tuh de side - like slidin' like de wind wus blowin' it, an' dey say yo'll meet de person on de way back. (The man who puts the coat out there....he calls different names, and when you get to the right name, this coat will raise up a little and move to the side. And when it does that, why he will meet this fellow on his way home?) On his way back. Maybe he'll be left out of town, but he will come back. He can't stay away.
Entry 554
Yo' take a person - de family of a person dat got killed yeahs ago, say, "Well, ah wonder who killed him, ah don't know." Well now, say, "Well, we'll go to a fortune-teller." Well, go to de fortune-teller an' he'll take some coffee, po' it in a cup an' he'll let chew drink three little sips of it an' he turn de cup down. When dey turn de cup down, let it set dere about five minutes. After den he'll take it up an' he'll look in it. Yo'll see de grains of coffee an' de very picture of de person dat killed him, an' it tell yo' directly, jest lak if it's two miles or three miles - well, yo' see dem grains of coffee will be jest dat fur apart an' jest de very shape of it [miles] an' tell 'zactly. Dere'll be letters cut - de 'nitial of his name in de cup.
Entry 555
(What did you say your name was?)
William Scott.
(William Scott. All right. No. 535.)
[On my first trip down the Eastern Coat from Virginia into Florida, I occasionally still asked a person his name and casually gave him a number. Both practices I have previously stopped, recording only a name volunteered and the number before entrance or after departure.] Well, dis woman dat I was goin' wit, see - me and her quit and she had wanted to come back to me, and ah wouldn't take her back because ah ketched her doin' wrong. She try to do me harm. She git another man to set some stuff on me to - some stuff for me to step in. She know ah was de first one to cross over it in de mawning to go to work. Ah come on out and go on to work and it started about eleven-thirty that I felt my back giving and mah laigs they cracked - ah couldn't hardly walk with it and ah asked to git off. At dinnertime, at noon, ah git off and come on home. By de time ah kin git home mah laigs and toes was all swollen up. So I went to a doctor - he's jest here on Commings Street, root doctor.
(What was his name?)
Williams - he named Williams, too. [Informant's first name William - doctor's last name Williams - hence the too!] He lived here right now. He stayed dere on Commings Street and now he moved. So I went to him and explained mysel' dat Satiday. So he said, "Well, ah tell yuh what chew do - you come back here Sunday mawning round five 'clock or six 'clock [or] Sunday noon," he said, "so I kin see what I kin [do] wit cha." [This is an act of magic - the magic delay.] So ah went down dere. So he tells fortunes in coffee. So he went round dere and he tells me to sit down and he git de coffee and he tell me, he say, "Well, boy, ah kin cure you" - it would take seven dollars. Ah say, "Yes sir." He say, "Now, whut ah want chew to do - ah'm goin' give you dis dime." He say, "You take dis dime ah give to you and you take dis dime and you cut it up real fine." He said, "An' you git chew a piece of red flannel and you take dis red flannel and rub dis dime round and round in dis red flannel." He said, "An' git a little bit of sulphur an' put wit dis silver whut you cut off de dime and work it round in dere good, and after you rub it round dere good, you take some assafitadee [asafetida] and put wit it and sew it up in a bag and put it round yore neck." [This is a hand or mojo or toby - see Index.] He said, "An' you drop back to me Monday and ah'll let chew know whut I kin do for you." [Again, the magic delay.] So dat Monday ah went back to him and when I went back to him, he said, "Well, you come on into de house." I went back to de house wit 'em. He said, "Now to- night at twelve o'clock," he said, "you come here to me," he said, "an' ah'll fix you up good to [at] the Morris Brown Cemetery.
(Morris Brown Cemetery.) [Negro cemetery.]
So ah went out dere wit 'em dat night an' he said, "Now ah want chew to do dis." He said, "Ah want chew to walk wit me to dis grave," he said, "and ah want chew to pick up a handful of dis sand," he said, "an' you walk backwards six feet [steps] and t'row it over you and wheel to yo' right."
(Throw it over - how do you throw it?)
T'row it ovah yore left shoulder an' wheel to yer right. An' I done that. I walk six feet and wheeled to mah right, wheeled to mah right. And he said, "Well, come on back home now." Ah went on back wit him - ketched a [street] car and went on back to his house. And after I went back to his house, he said, "Now, what chew Want me to do - do you want me to dress dis woman or fix dis woman?" Ah said, "No." He say, "Well, all you want's me to do is unloose you?" I say, "Yes sir." He says, "All right. Now, look whut I'm gon'a do. I want cha in de morning to git up early," he said, "you git up early and go right to the step, and take you a big spoon - cooking spoon and dig down underneat' dat step," he say, "an' you see all yo' troubles right to the step." So dat morning I git up and I dig down at de foot of de step and when I git dere [it] was a little package rolled up jest like a little - about de size of a egg - in de package looked like it Was gunpowdah and some other - ah don't [know] whut to tell yuh - some other stuff in dere real fine like little grounds and dust and things like that. An' I dig it up and after digging this up - he say, "You bring it on to me" - and I dig it up and I bring it on to him. He said, "Now, this was the beginning of you' trouble." An' so after dat, mah feet begin to goin' down - de swelling stuff begin to leave mah feet. Den he say, "Well, ah'll boil some root medicine now, to get that thing out chure system." An' which like he did. He went and boiled dis medicine and ah drinked dis medicine ever' twice a day until it went and went until it went down to my feet - down to mah feet. Now, ever' summer dat same thing come out jest like some 'neral [veneral] disease, jes' broken out in yore feet, ever' summer. It goes back in de wintertime, but in de summertime, spring- time, it like that.
(In summer you still have it?)
Yes, sir - got it now.
(It looks like a veneral disease?)
It jes' broke out in a fine bump and then it turn out sore. Then it swell - it start in de knee and den it go right on to de feet - all the ankles and ever'thing swole up - jes' like it swole up now.
Entry 556
I'll tell you what my father saw in a white girl's coffee cup. She brought her cup to my father, asked him to read it. He looked in it and said he did not want to tell her what was in it, but she begged him to tell her. He saw a casket [coffin] wit lots of flowers on it. That was Saturday morning. Tuesday afternoon she was dead. [New York City, (1), Ed.; Wilmington, N. Car.,1915.]
Entry 557
If yo' wanta know whether yo' goin' git married or not, yo' kin take a spoon an' put it in a cup an' po' coffee grounds in it an' if dose coffee grounds circle roun' an' makes a circle right roun' de top part of dat spoon, then yo'll git married; but if it doesn't, yo' not goin' tuh git married.
Entry 558
I had a aunt, she got hurt, and it started up in her head and it jes' keep on worryin' her head. And so she went to a doctor and found out that some- body had put somepin down for her. It somepin wrahpped up in a little bondle and they had it over the door. It was some kinda powder and some sharp instruments in there, look kinda like pins - it didn't have heads on it but it jis' was straight sharp. It was a rootman find it. He took a little somepin like a watch and laid a fifty cents on that, and anywhere they got anything down, it was a little hand turned [either a compass or buried-treasure finder], and that little hand turned toward that door and he went and got it. He took that [cunjuring object] - I don't know what he did wit it. He gave her some sweet milk and sheep bur [round droppings - dung] and sul- phur mixed together. They boil that [sheep dung] and get the juice out of it - the sheep bur - and pour that in there and then mix the sulphur with it. And then she got well. [Wilmington, N. Car., (245), 241:5; happened near Sumter, S. Car.,1934.]
Entry 559
I was married quite a spell and I met this woman, as I was lodging wit her. Well, she seemed to have been my best friend before she knowin' dat my husband was goin' tuh marry me. At de time we was gettin' ready to get married she attempted, no doubt, to separate us. And she got very special pieces and cut 'em into pieces. Well, I found 'em after goin' to see dis man.
(Well, tell me about going to see that man again.)
I went to see de man and he says to me, he says, "Dis woman is your worst enemy." Said, "Dis woman means to separate you and your husband." (And he was looking into a crystal or something like that wasn't he?) [She is retelling the beginning of the story because I had failed to start machine.] Yes - you want me to tell dat again?
(Yes.)
He said, "Well, I will show you dis woman as your enemy, and I wants to see whether you know her." The crystal was as big as a - great big round crystal and just as clear as a crystal - that's why I thought it was a crystal - must have been a: crystal ball.
(You actually could see her in there with her arms spread out?)
I seen her spreaded and when he put de crystal, he said, "Now, look in here - it tells you. I says, 1 "All right." "All right." Dis woman was standing between me and my husband like this. He say, "Now, dat's to keep you apart."
(Well, how did it happen that you went to see this man?)
I went home. I had something it effected [affected] me like the rheumatism - that what she had done it effected me just like a rheumatism. I had on my knees something de shape of a egg, dat you would bury you finger in - you know, it would give. (Was it a bump - a big bump?) [I am trying to prevent her from omitting details previously told.] Yes, it was right in this place and it just like you would bury a egg in sand; you know how de egg is an oval - something like dat and it would be half buried - and if you stick your finger in it in de morning it wouldn't come up through de day. And so he examined it and he had to give me a bath. He put de feet just in a bath and he - course I didn't want him to go dat far, but he said that he were my best friend. Then I begin to know it wasn't rheumatism, when he told me about de woman. So, well, I said, "I don't believe what you say." He say, '"Certainly, you don't believe it but I want to show you." And when I seen de woman I believe there was something that wasn't so. So, she was just between us - she trembled just like a leaf - just like that [demonstrates]. [How he agitated the concealed photograph depends upon whether the crystal was in his hands or on a permanent base. More important than the how is the clever- ness of the why.] I says to him, I says, "Well, why is that [trembling]?" He says, "She is very nervous - I'm sending it, turning it back to her." He said, "Now, when you go into your home" - I were leaving in a day or so - "you go to walk." I had to be carried upstairs and brought down. He say, "You go to walk and when you go in, you just say, "Take it off of me and put it on her."
(You say that as you went in the door?)
I was to say that as I go up de steps, and he give me something to sprinkle as I passed - "Take it off of me and put it on Julia" - her name was Julia - ''take it off me and put it on Julia." [He said] "In a few days Julia will become just like she wanted you to become."
(How many times did you have to say that?)
Right as I was goin' up de steps.
(Was there any number of times you had to say it?)
Right on as I goin' up the stairs - till I landed upstairs. I lived over her. And in a few days, he said, she'll become just like she intend me to become, and that was that she'd be sore - all of her private parts would be very, very sore and she'd be so - just effected nobody wanted to have her round. Well, she did. And he said that she'll ask you to wash for her. He said, "Don't fail to do it." Well, dat scared me to death and I wanted to get - you see he said, "Dat's your only savior - that's your only savior." So I went downstairs that morning - she asked me - and she was in a bad condition, and "Don't let dis woman get to your back." Well, it would be every five minutes she could be in dere, and I had to get up, you know, and turn my face to her, and I washed de clothes and I hung dem out. And when I get to my landing up de stairs again, he says, say de same thing, "Take it off of me and put it on Julia." Well, dat woman was taken down so nobody - her husband left her and nobody stayed in dere, all de lodgers left. She was just so offensive - de house and everything. And she stayed that- a-way, I reckon, about three months in de house all alone, nobody paying no attention. And she died all alone. And they found dis package dat belonged to me where she had - and - because I knew de things - and some of my dress and it was something - I said it was red pepper and dis man said it was. And he said that these things were put together to separate us through living very much like two cats or dogs, see, and they'd make me fight. [See No. 78 in which a woman becomes a drunkard because another woman put a spell on her.] Well, while he were treating me, he put me in dis bath and over here he had a table dat he mixed up all kinds of stuff - he had that table full of everything. So this solution that he give me to keep up de bath was something like bluestone, and he had bluestone - as I think it was, and - I was looking right at him - and he had sulphur and he had some kind of a white stuff looking just like salts, I guess.
(Any kind of salts - like Epsom salts.)
Epsom salts - very much like Epsom salts - and he would mix it - he'd do like that [demonstrates] - mix it.
(He would cross his arms.)
Yes. [She continues demonstration.]
(Then he would do like that - fold his arms.)
I - here - that - yes, just like that. [Demonstration continues.] (Then he would move his hands out like that - and he would bring his arms back again - and fold them again - and they would keep going out - hands going out.) Yes, six times.
(Six times - while he was mixing it over the water - after it or what?)
He had de water now, it was just like spring water - it was just so clear and. [She stopped here while I changed to cylinder 429 and as usual I talked to distract attention.]
(He mixed it for you - he put it in a bottle, this medicine?)
Yes, and I was to drop that, which - he said it was two drops or something - looked like blood.
(After it was all mixed up it looked like blood?)
Yeah - no, he just put three drops in dere - very much like blood.
(Oh, he put three drops of [something looking like] blood in there?)
Yes, and he told me to take this and bathe that leg down with mah feet settin' propped square and flat in de basin or in a tub, any place that I would get, and I was to pray and ask de Lord to uproot that. Sure enough I did - in about four days I was ready to run upstairs, and that place gone.
(Was it on the side of your knee or just above your knee?)
Just above - right up on top of de knee - not on de cap but right in de - like in de lap-like of de knee. (Oh, in the lap - I see - one on each side?) [I evidently thought I saw then what I do not see now.] Yes, one on each side, and they were to go all over me and I was to break out so my people would have left me like her people left her. Well, after she died, why I got on splendid and my health improved and every- thing seemed to be going on nicely, and this husband and I got back friendly again, and we live together now.
(Where did this happen - up here in Petersburg, you say?)
Yes - no, no - in Norfolk. Now, Petersburg is mah home. [Now - at the interview - she lived in Norfolk.]
(Oh, Petersburg is your home, I see.)
Yes, and they took me to Petersburg to this doctor.
(Oh, this doctor was in Petersburg?)
Yes, de doctor was in Petersburg.
(What was his name - is he still alive up there?)
Now? I don't think he is, because I tried to look for him for another friend and I don't believe dat he is alive. De last dat dey say dat he was in Richmond. But nobody over there kin tell anything about him no more than he were there, and nobody in Petersburg kin tell no more 'en he was there - lived over in Pocahontas in two huts - there were dirt floors and roughly fixed as a bed - you might say a bunk - that's the way he stayed. And it was a dirt floor in both of these bunks, these huts - and I went in both of 'em - send me first in one and den the other, and I stayed there all day. He ordinarily treated in those places - and when I come on there.
(He treated in one room once and then go and treat you in the other room?)
Yes, and each time I was in a different kind of a chair.
(Different kind of chairs.)
Yes - now one chair he screwed me up to be tall - you know, somepin like a office chair.
(Oh, like a office chair - I see.)
Yeah - a office chair brings you low and high, and he screwed me up. I didn't have to get down for anything until he got ready and then he would attend and do everything, but he used this medicine all de time, see.
(What you had to do at home, he did it in the office first?)
Yes. (Well what sort of - what did he have in that tub - did he have water in that tub or a special mixture in there?) He had water.
(Just plain water.)
Yes, first it was warm water, and then he put dis medicine in there.
(In the water that he had prepared?)
Yes, and then he told me what to repeat, when I went up de stairs, "Take it off of me and put it on Julia." 'Take it off me and put it on Julia." And it took me about six or ten times to say that going upstairs.
(How long ago did this happen?)
Well, that was - I was quite young.
(About how many years ago would you say that was?)
Oh - that would be thirty years - have to be thirty years and more, I think, too - yes, a long thirty years ago. And I see dis man, I think, twice after dat. After I had improved a little, I went to see him again and he says to me, he say, "Don't have anything to do with dat woman whatever - if you even correspond with her, it'll bother my work." And sure enough dat man was doing miracles round in Petersburg and I know people now that he attended, if they are alive.
(What was his name - do you know his name?)
He was named Skipper Tan - John Skippertan.
(John Skippertan?)
S-k-i-p-t-a-n.
(I see.)
A most peculiar name - and he looked very much like a cat. [This reminds me of Doghead whom I twice tried to find in his shack on an isolated public dump in or near Newport News, Virginia - see Introduction. While my machine was stopped I had evidently returned to the almost forgotten package.] My hair?
(Some of your hair was in that?)
Yes, my hair, and these pieces and this [what] looked like to be salt. They were all folded up in a neat little - you might [say] little papers, little piece of papers and there wasn't much of it, you know, but dey were in just little papers about a inch long and I reckon about a inch square - just folded 'em all in dere, and it seems dey were in something like tissue paper, and they were folded over, and when I got dem dey were under my bed. {Her words do not mean what they say - the reason for my following comment.]
(That's where they found them.)
That's where dey found 'em - under my bed. (How many were there of these little things folded up that way? Did they count them or anything like that, these little pieces of paper folded up inside of that cloth?) No, he didn't count dem.
[The doctor found them.]
They were a powder like and de other pieces in dere and my dress - piece of my goods, I knew it by dat, you see. Well, now, how anybody got it but her, I don't know. So, that's why I know when he told me dat this was the woman -Id seen de woman [in crystal ball] - he said, "Dis is de woman dat did dis to you."
(You say your mother took you down there the first time?)
Yes, mother took me.
(Well, what did she think about it?)
Well, my mother thought it was rheumatism and she took me. This friend of hers didn't believe it was rheumatism, but she didn't tell my mother - she just said it was a doctor that would cure me, and I went over there - just married, you know, and couldn't walk, so they tried everything they could to see whether it would do any good.
(How soon did this affect you after you were married?)
About three months.
(About three months after you were married?)
Yes - I was married from her house - I lodged with her. (Well, what did it feel like when it first started to come on - how did it come on you, I mean?) It come on just like, you might say, pains in mah feet and laigs, and ah complained about it for three weeks - I think it was about three weeks coming.
(Did you have a headache or backache or anything of that sort with it?)
De laigs pained and then it affected me in my back, which I never had backache since or before, and I couldn't get up and down de steps - these knees and this back wouldn't allow me. I didn't think anybody was tryin' to do anything because I didn't believe in such things. (You just gradually started to get pains in your feet and your legs and it kept getting worse?) Yes.
(And in three weeks, you said, you couldn't walk at all?)
I couldn't walk at all - I couldn't get up unless somebody helped me. Well, ah thought I was going home as I didn't have any people heah. I was going to leave and go home until I got well, and I did. When I got up there, a friend of my mother's said she knew a man that would cure me, and she believe all de time what it - what she was going to do - she went with us. Now, my mother didn't know this man, but she knew him and she took us over there, and I thought I was going to a doctor. (Well, when you first went there - what did you say to the man - did your mother speak to him or who spoke to him?) The minute I come into the hut, to the place - nobody spoke. He said, "Good morning," he says, "and what are you here for?" He didn't give me a chance to say what I was there for. He says, You're painful - you're sick - it's good dat you come." Well, ah begin to be all funny-looking and feeling funny because why should he say I was feeling bad. I was feeling awfully bad. And he says, "Walk right in dis room and I'll wait on you right. away." He says, "Now, don't you be scared." Just like dat [she imitated his voice]. Well, ah suppose he knew he was comical looking, and I would be afraid. And he didn't let my mother stay in dis room. And - but I was so anxious to get well, as I had just left my home - married and left a home - all dat.
(You left your husband in Norfolk in other words.)
Yes, he had to stay on the job but I went to my mother because I thought I Was going to be real sick. So I sent for money and he sent me $25 and I had to pay him a part of the money when I went in, and then when I got through and got well for him to discharge me, I paid him the rest. But he said, if I was to take sick like that again I could come to him and he would give me every penny back. But I never felt it or seen it again - it went away just like de wind would blow a piece of paper away. I didn't realize it was going or nothing, but I realized that I didn't see it anymore and I continued to walk. I walked everywhere after dat and I didn't - I warn't no time married before I was sick and I just couldn't understand, but now, I believe more in it after he showed me dis woman. Well, if he hadn't showed me dis woman, it would be just like some throwed to east or west 'cause I wouldn't have believed in it. But I did believe in it afterward.
(You actually saw this woman in there, you say?)
I saw her like I'm looking at you, and she was standing between me and my husband, and he said, it was to separate us, and dat was her working to an end. But she died just like she intend me to die. I would have suffered just like she suffered.
(Did she have those bumps on her when she died?)
Ah don't think she had the bumps, but she was Just all over sores - she had very bad trouble and sores. She was sore just everywhere and the doctor pro- nounced it incurable, and dey couldn't do her no good.
(I see.)
Entry 560
I've been hurted with this here witchcrafter twicet in my life. The first in 1918, I was workin' down to the Broadford [Bradford?] Iron Works- dat's down here to foot of Church Street - an' I was a mechanic helper an' I was installin' a motor there one day. They'd pull de truck from de river up to de machine shop that was to haul de heavy tools out from de water up to de shop an' one day I was workin' along an' workin' along an' didn't thought about anything. That night I come on home an' de nex' mornin' I got up, aimed to get up - this ahrm heah felt like it weighed hunderd pounds. It would carry me down lak dis, as fer as that [demonstrates].
(Bend you over.)
Look like it would weigh me on down like that. I laid down [on] de cot in there an' hold it up like that an' kinda feeled it. So I called my wife, I said, "Look here," I said, "this ahrm look to me lak it weighed a hunderd pounds." I thought it would pull my head off of me. She said, "Well, whut's de matter with it?" I say, "I don't know. I jis' can't hold my shoulder up heah an' dis ahrm jis' heavy. "` "Well," she say, "if you can't go to work today, well you'd better git de doctor." Well, I got Du Bose[?], he was de family doctor. So, she went out there an' called him up. He came there an' gave me his medicine. He give me some rubbin' medicine to rub it with an' some internal medicine to take an' I took that about two months. That didn't do me any good atall - it jis' look like it was gittin' worser an' worser an' worser an' worser. I jis' had to put that hand an' hold it in a sling like that. There came a man heah from Greenville, South Carolina. His name was Doctor Daniel - Daniel somepin, I can't remember his whole name now. But he claimed to be a medical doctor - he was a medical doctor an' he was also witchcraft doctor. So I went to him. I heerd about it, I went to him that day. I told him about how this ahrm was an' I had my family doctor workin' on it an' he seemed to not do me no good. He say, "Well, I will examine it an' see what's de matter." He say, "I don't care what's de matter wit joo or anybody," he says, "fis' as long as you're hurted by witchcraft, an' if you's hurted, if it s rheumatism or your blood or somepin like that, I can git you all right." So, he set me upon [a] chair an' we set down there in the bedroom an' [he] took a bag [imitating doctor's kit]. He looked down an' he looked in it an' got out a glass - it wasn't a water glass - about - it was about dat high [see later] an' set it down. An' he brought out a great big white ball [demonstrates].
(Three or four inches in diameter.)
An' set it on de table. An' he put that ball right on top of de glass [stand or base], an' he set there, an' the ball started to turnin' right on top of de glass. He says, "Now, if anything [is] wrong wit you," he say, "after de date that you was hurted," he say, "you'll see what'll be the consequence nine days after they hurt choo." After that the ball kin'a stop. The ball stop, it got as black on de other side yonder as that table there [which I was using]l, an then it [this side towards informant] was jis' like a lookin'-glass then, only turn to me. An' I looked on that glass like that an' seen a man comin' from down out de boiler shop wit somepin in his hand jis' about that long - it looked like a feathah about that long, about a foot long, an' he comes there where dat I was installin' some motor up to de shed up there, an' [demonstrates] he picks up mah hammah an' took de hammah up by de ball [steel head], an' hold dat hammah up an' took dis thing out of his hand an' hold de hammah down on dat side an' hold de hammah down on dat side, an' hold de hammah down on dat side. [I now comment:] (Holding the iron head of the hammer, with the handle pointed downward, the man took this dressed feather and rubbed it down both sides of the handle and he did this three times on each side.) An' I was lookin' [at] him jis' de same as I'm lookin' at you. An' he laid the hammah down. So, he went on back down de shop an' then I come out de shop an' go up there an' got up mah hammah, I nailed the motor down an' started de motor, then went on back de shop. I was feelin' jis' as good as any- thing in de world. I went back de shop an' went on to work - worked on aroun' an' worked on aroun' that after he had did that. Well, I set there. He told me, "Well, now you see - you see what's happened to you," he say, "now you were hurted nine days 'fore dis thing [pain] happened." He says, "Now I kin cure you." I says, "Well, all right; if you can cure me cure me." He says, '"Now, you do what I'll tell you to do - you take jis' whut I tell you to do an' I'll guarantee you I'll cure it. I'll cure it for forty-five dollahs an' you give me fifteen dollahs now an' the others after you're cured." I say, "All right." I give him fifteen dollahs. He say, "Now, you go back home." He say, "You got any red peppah?" I told him, "Yes sir." He say, '"You got any saltpeter?" I told him, "Yes sir." "Well, you go on back home an' git joo about a quarter of a pound of red peppah an' get choo two balls of saltpeter about as large as the end of your finger. An' grind that red peppah up good an' fine an' put it in a pint of Water, an' grind that saltpeter up an' put it in with that - saltpeper an' dat red peppah together. An' git choo" - then I went an' got a five-cent box of sulphah - "take a half a teaspoon of that sulphah ever' night an' mornin', take a teaspoonful of dat peppah-water three time a day, '' an' that was fer nine days a piece. It cured me.
Entry 561
['Mollie Lee (a doctor in or near Suffolk, Virginia) received her crystal ball through the spirits" - from a note about her.]
Entry 562
Ah heard of people usin' shoes in runnin' watah, yo' know, bury it in de creek, whare de watah runnin'. Bury it an' let de watah run ovah it. Well, ah knowed a woman outen mah home, she come pinin' away tuh nuthin' an' she wus larger den yo' an' she jes' pine away an' died. An' aftah she died, well, her people went tuh some doctah, a two-haided person, an' dey tole 'em dat her shoe wus in de creek in runnin' watah, an' dey say it wus buried jes' about a half a foot in runnin' watah, an' said that whut caused her death, caused her tuh pine away an' she wus not sick or nuthin', an' she jes' went down tuh nuthin'.
[Informant cites another case surely taken to a two-header.]
(Whom did this happen to?)
Tuh mah sister's chile - de baby, yo' know - it wus walkin', jes' a little tot walkin', an' it jes' got weak in its back. Dey taken it shoe an' throwed it in de fiah an' burned it up. Dat's all dey done. Dey didn't nevah put nuthin' in wit it, jes' taken de shoe an' stockin' an' throwed it in de fiah, an' dat made him weak in de back an' in de knees, so he couldn't stand up, stopped him from walkin'.
Entry 563
Well, may I tell mah experience about it? Well, once ah was dressing a lady's hair an' I slightly took off mah shoe, de left one. Well, de lady was an ole enemy of my father and I didn't know any definite reason why she should do anything to me. But on June the 4, 1937, I immediately had a swelling around mah ankle. Ah didn't pay it any attention - ah thought it was probably from my shoe, and it continued to grow. Everything got swollen 'bout me 'cept mah arms, and I didn't know de reason why my daddy cared [carried] me to de doctor's - he [father] thought it was a touch of dropsy, but de doctor said it was dropsy an' gave me medicine. The more medicine-medicine [doctor's medicine] that ah took, de worse ah got. Ah only found out whut was de matter wit me by a dream - an' I interpret de dream mahself. I had a dream of mah mother. I dreamt she had a jade green earring - earring and necklace round her neck, and I asked her whut were they for. She say, "Darling, '' [she] says, "Gren signifies poison." An' ah immediately waked up - an' when ah awaken ah went downstairs an' tole mah daddy just whut ah dream an' interpret mah dream to him, an' so he carried me to a root doctor. An' de root doctor tole me dat ah was poisoned an' ah wasn't poisoned from de mouth - ah was poisoned from de shoe." An' he took de shoe an' dressed it fol me an' tole in five days ah would be able to wear mah shoes agin, an' ah was.
(Did he tell you how this shoe was dressed for you?)
He didn't tell me definitely how de shoe was dressed, but he tole me the lady had placed something in it. And he took this shoe an' sprayed it with salt. An' after spraying with salt, he told me tuh wear it. I wore de shoe an' immediately my swelling Went down within five days.
Entry 564
She [the informant's grandmother] commence with a sore leg. An' she go to the doctor for a treatment, an' the more he 'tend to it, de worser it would get. So one moon night she lay down an' she dreamt about a remedy fer it. She got up the next morning, she went out an' sit on de doahstep - an' she say she dreamt that a ole lady tole her to get some cow manure an' put on this leg an' that would heal it. So she went out an' set on the step. A cow came by, an' she took de manure an' put it on her leg, an' five black-headed worms came out in dis manure. She nevah did have any more trouble with it. [Was she told in the dream to sit on doorstep until a cow came by? My note, while transcribing reads, "This sounds like the remnant of a folktale" - the theme.]
Entry 565
Yes, well, that was in Columbia [South Carolina] now. That was years ago, you know. My mother was alive then - this was a long long time. I had been a girl of about seventeen or eighteen years old. We were living on Smith Street near [Something] Street and in my slumber one night de spirit tole me - must get up next morning and when I come down de steps in de hallway must turn my back and come out de door backwards. When I come out de door backwards, it say - underneath the steps was a piece of brown paper and something was in it. And I got up next morning and I told my mother what was told to me in my slumber and I got up and there I found it. She threw it in de toilet and washed it out and then we had to clean up out that place and go back to the place where we moved from. That was fixed to run us out of there. But we knew who put it there though.
(What was in this paper?)
It was graveyard dirt and something else. It is known that if you get grave- yard dirt and kind of dress it, why they will run you out wherever you goes. Ah've found that.
Entry 566
I wus blin' lak dat one time. They jis' put it on a pocket han'kachef - dat same dus' off de rattlesnake, jis' like she took de [snake] shed an' do like dat [demonstrates, pulverizing it], an' then dus' it on de han'kachef. An' I pick up de han'kachef to go out de room, an' look lak thousan' pins in mah face; an' lak you settin' there, you look like you about dat big [demonstrates with hands, very smallj. Well, I wus sick about I reckon about three months with it. I couldn't see a bit. An' I wus tole in mah sleep - I jis' dreamt one mornin' befo' day - it looked like it wus a white woman tol' me in mah sleep to git a dime an' wash it, an' boil it in a quart of watah down to a jill, and drop nine drops in mah eyes ever' mornin' befo' de sun rise, nine [mornings]. An' I done it. I ain't been blin' since.
Entry 567
If you have a bad dream, this shows that someone is trying to cunjure you. An' [if] you wan'a find out who it is, you take an' make de mark like a snake on dis tablecloth an' then [say], "In the Name of the Lord, joo must come," an' turn the tablecloth back ovah the snake, an' before nine o'clock the next day he'll be there.
The account treats a bad dream as a sign of attempted cunjuring; that interpretation is not independently verified.
Entry 568
Well, mah husband was runnin' with a woman an' ah didn't know about it. He came - he was in this city an' he came to mah home where he married me an' he brought me ovah heah, an' he moved me not far from dis woman, an' at de time she knew of her affair between he an' her, an' ah didn't. Well, she begin tuh git friendly with me, bringing me diff'rent things to eat, an' a lady tole me that ah stood in danger, an' ah asked what did she mean. She said, "Why dat woman likes yore husband - been liking him fo' about ten-'leven years." An' so ah begin to watch around an' I find out. So pretty soon she begin to work some kind evil spirit in mah home an' ah notice on certain moons mah husband would be very cruel to me an' mah baby. An' so his treatment to me was so cruel tull [till] it arouse mah mother in Bay City, Florida - forty-nine miles below Tampa, an' she begin to have bad dreams about me. She had a dream about me that night that mah brother came to her an' said, "Mother," said, "whut kinda casket [coffin] do yo' want us tuh buy for Janey May." An' she said, "Well, ah want chew to git a brown casket." Well, he goes downtown an' couldn't find one so he comes back an' tells her that he couldn't find a brown one but that he has a gray one. She said, "Ah don't like the gray. So, in her dream she woke up and she sent mah two sisters over here to see whut was wrong with me. So they came over here an' they said, "Mama had bad dreams about chew so we came to see about cha" - to see whut was wrong with me. So they talked with me and they said, "Something's wrong between yo' an' yore husband," said, "yo' better go see someone." So ah came up de way heah on Ninth avenue to Mr. Singleton which is a palmist. He read mah palm an' he tole me that mah husband was vitchcrafted an' de woman did it because she wanted him tuh be cruel to me - he would treat me so mean so ah would leave him. So fin'lly ah left him an' went home - ah vowed ah wouldn't come back tuh him. Ah talked with him to go to Tampa, so he went to Tampa an' the lady tole him the same thing, an' tole him that the stuff was buried under the steps. She tole me to watch close and ah would ketch dis woman because all vitchcraft is usually done at twelve 'clock in de night. An' so ah asked her if ah could dig fo' it. She said if ah would dig fo' it ah wouldn't find it [i!l], but the best thing to do was to go round an' round de house with salt and sulphur. So when ah came back from Tampa that Sunday afternoon ah went round an' round de house with sulphur an' salt. An' so 'bout twelve 'clock dat night mah step-daughter was comin' from de picture show - it was 'xactly twelve an' dis woman was down on her knees in my yard digging holes. Well, mah step-daughter ran ahead and tole me, "Dis ole woman is out heah in de yard digging holes," so ah got up an' run to de do', an' she had run. Well, ah come back to Mr. Singleton, an' ah asked him, ah said, "What was de trouble - what was dat woman out dere fo'?" He say, "She's burying something to make yo' git along bad." An' ah asked him if he could dig it up an' he said, "Yes." An' ah asked him tuh please dig it up. He went out an' he dug up a little hearts cologne bottle - de bottle had a little junk in it - an' he said, "Dis stuff in heah raises lotsa cain." An' ah said, "What do yo' mean by cain?" He said, "Well, it makes yore husband be very cruel to yo' - he loves yuh but he can't treat chew nice because she's got him goin' that way so yo' kin leave him." Ah say, "Well, ah'll not leave him." I says, "If she kin spend her three an' fo' dollars to make him quit me, ah'm goin' tuh spend mine to show her that she can't git him." Ah said, "If she'd come an' ask me fo' him, maybe ah'd give him to her, but if she gon'a work some kinda dirty plan like dat to get 'im, ah'll live tuh see the grass grow on her grave." So, fin'lly, it kept on an' on tull dey tole me ah would have tuh move outa de house ah was in because it was so badly dressed, it would take at least $75 to fix it up so we'd have peace in it. So ah moved in another house an' she fin'lly tricked that one. So ah wrote a letter tuh de Unity School an they wrote me back and tole me -
(Where was this school?)
It's in Kansas City, Missouri. An' so they wrote me back and tole me that they were praying fo' me and that they were very sorry I was havin' such luck. So ah prayed on an' read the 35th Psalm, see, as ah was tole to do, an' ah read it fo' nine mornings. An' so de lady tole me, said, "Yo' continue on tuh read this, that God's will will be done to the person who did yo' this way." So fin'lly, ah kept readin' an' readin', an' readin', an' readin', an' so ah said, "Lawd, look lak yo' will ain't nevah goin' be done" - ah say that in mah mind. So on de last day in May, which is the 30th day of - Decoration Day in May, she got drownded. An' so all de people came around an' said, "Maybe yo'll have peace." Ah said, "Maybe ah'll have peace, after she's gone maybe ah'll have peace." So then, the man tole me about two weeks ago, says, "She's dead, but dat [her] stuff is still livin'." An' ah tole him, ah say, "Ah don't believe yo' kin kill it," I said, "because they usually say when a person dies an' leave that kinda stuff, well, yo' can't git it off." He said, "Well, ah kin take it off," said, "but ah'll have tuh do it dis way," said, "ah'll have to leave it at de [her] grave." He say, "Usually when a person do anything to yo' and they daid," say, "yo' have to take it off an' leave it at de grave," he said, "but if the person livin', why, yo' don't have that to do." He said, "But chure trouble, it has tuh be took off an' left at the grave," he say, "an' ah'll have to go in de grave fo' yo' round fo' 'clock in de morning." An' ah tole him, ah said, "Won't chew be 'fraid tuh go in there?" He said, "No," say, "ah went to the grave on many mornings." He said, "That's mostly how ah ketch people." He said, "Usu'lly, yo' write a letter to a daid person an' take three cents an' lay it on de letter an' when yo' go to de grave- yard, yo' jes' dig a little hole an' stick it in there," said, "when yo' go home yo'll have a dream jes' what plan to do. An' ah asked him how did he know, an' he said he had experience with that, that's how he got so much money for that. So, well, we discussed a lotta things an' he tole me, he said, he wanted me to have some hog husk an' things ready fo' him Tuesday afternoon.
(What?)
Hog husks [tusks]. So we discussed things on an' he tole me, he said, "Yo' husband has lotsa enemies 'cause he's a older man than yo' an' yo's a younger woman than him," an' said, "lotsa men envy him of yo'," an' he said, "ah'm goin' fix him an' put him on his feet but de one thing ah want him tuh do is tuh git me nine hog husks." An' say, "Ah'm gon'a take dem nine hog husks, an' ah'm gon'a git a dime worth of herts perfume an' ah'm gon'a put this dime into some kind of eskit [this is the word = essence? = greasing dime] an' ah want chew tuh swallow it." [See Dime, swallowing, in Index.] He said, "Ah want that dime to remain in yo' body 'leven days."
(How many?)
"Leven. An' he said, "When ah return on de 'leven day," he say, "ah'll remove that dime from yore body." An' he say, "Then ah'll take those hog's husks an' ah'll grind 'em an' ah'll put some mah strong stuff with it." He said, "Then ah want chew to roll it into a cigarette an' smoke it fo' nine mornings, an' each time yo' smoke that cigarette," say, "yo' say these words, say, "let chure work be done Lawd, ' say, "let this bad luck and the evil spell go away an' let me be lak ah once was.'" He said, "Say that fo' nine days," say, "ah'm quite sure that yo' will be on yore feet again." Ah said, "Well, what about dis evil spirit that's bothering me?" He say, "It will even do away with the evil spirit," an' he say, "there's one scripture in de Bible that ah want tell yo' tuh read when ah come back." Say, "Ah want chew tuh read it fo' nine mornings an' ah'm quite sure yo'll be on yore feet."
(Well, what happened then?)
Well, he hasn't come yet - he'll be in Tuesday.
(He hasn't told you what to do yet?)
He hasn't tole me yet. (Well, now, when you get to the end of the story, you come around and tell me again, will you - tell me what he does.) Yes sir.
Entry 569
When ah was twelve years old, people used to come to mah house and git mah daddy to let me come cut cards fo' 'um - see, it was a gift to me. Ah nevah been to school two months in mah life but I musta had [something?] down in mah heart, but ah got wicked and got to cursin', tellin' lies and it left me. Now, for experient [experience], for self- experient about mahself, about mah wife - ah tole you about my wife. Ah'm got a wife an' fo' kids. My wife, somebody put a spell on her in liquor [see No. 78]. She got it in whiskey and she done walked off. She been gone now fer about round three months. [This was not the first time she had left home.] Ah done spent money, all ah had - ah been to Beaufort, South Carolina, ah been to other people.
(Whom did you see at Beaufort?)
A man dey call Dr. Robinson - j'ever hear talk about him - live on an island?
(I never heard of Robinson - I know Rikker who is there.)
(Did he live in Beaufort or outside of town?)
He lived outside of town on a little island.
(Oh, yes, I know him - I know him.) [See Robinson in Index.]
Well, anyways he lived on a little island.
(What did he do for you when you went there?)
He tole me if I could get my wife hair - he put somepin to his ear, see - he say, "Yore wife got a spell on her in whiskey," which ah knows that, but I ain't said nothing. He put somepin to his ear and ah hear him talking and it look to like - and he say, "What dis boy done?" [He say] "Ain't done nothin'?" He say, "Uh-huh." He say, "Two wimmins put a spell on your wife in liquor." [The moment informant said the doctor had put somepin to his ear, I suspected Doctor Robinson had used an old-fashioned ear trumpet to consult a spirit. My informant could hear him talking - both spirit and doctor. Ventriloquism? I doubt it - it was unnecessary. Instead of asking his patient what was wrong, the doctor inquired of the spirit, What dis boy done? Presumably the spirit replied, Ain't done nothin', for doctor somewhat surprised repeats, Ain't done nothin'? And then he knowingly comments, Uh-huh. If the reader is skeptical about method and belief here, remember that the Tomb-of-de-Babe-of-Bethlehem preacher (see Contents or Index) could hold a sea shell to his ear and hear the roaring of the primordial ocean of Genesis - first book in the Bible. See also No. 242 for talking snake.] He say, "If yo' kin bring her to me," say, "ah'll cure her." Ah say, "Well, ah ain't got no way bringin' her - she done left home." He say, in seven days from den she goin' be back - and she was back de seventh day. She come back, but he say, "She won't stay without chew bring her to me." But ah never did get enough money to take my wife. All right, she left again. An' ah went to different people right here in town and dey couldn't make her come back. An' you know what I hear oncet? I did oncet, heah about two weeks ago, ah went to de people and tole 'em, ah said, "Don't work on her no mo' - jes' let her go." But dat day when ah come, heah she was sweeping de house. [At this point in the transcription an original note of mine reads, "Hayes (my transcriber) left out material about spirits - my use of silver." What this silver means I no longer know.] Ah give mah wife up. She wouldn't come near. She would come dere when ah wouldn't answer [while he was away from home] and go along. It come to me to take a aig, write her name on it three times and ah put it in a glass and bury it under - right near de house under a tree, see.
(Near her house or your house?)
To my house - right in mah yard.
(You didn't break the egg?)
Didn't break it. All right. Now, here where dis come. Ah have a little ole plum tree, too, out in de yard. Jest as plain as ah'm talkin' to you, it come to me in mah sleep - a man tole me - to take a white pine - piece of white pine - yo' know what a white pine is - go to dat tree three nights and three days and call her name nine times fore ah hit one of those - see, jest like a leaf - a tree done sprung from it [a come] - call her name and hit on it three times fer three nights and three days. All right. Ah tole de ole man yestiday she done workin' around somebody - seems she done gettin' worried. See, last night was de last night after sundown - she come home last night at twelve 'clock with her clothes and so help me, God, and she tole me, she said she ain't going leave no more. So I musta done git de spirit [the man in his sleep], see. Now, dat's the truf, if I never speak agin. An' she's gittin' jest further - she wouldn't come near me atall. Dey man moved in, say de spell was put on her to make her hate me - say two wimmin did it wit whiskey and one man. But now, this thing heah what ah'm tellin' yo' 'bout with that piece of white pine, and go to that tree after sundown and call her name three times an' jest tell her what chew want, tell her that you want her to come home and stay home.
(When you call her name, do you hit the tree with that thing?)
Jest knock a leaf off it. Yo' jest pick yo' one of 'em dat grows, see - tain't no pine, jest any kind of tree, but you git a piece of white pine to do it wit. You got'a go to a little ole green tree - somepin like a plum tree or any kind of a green tree. That what the man tole me and what ah did.
(Who told you this?)
A spirit tole me.
(Oh, a spirit man - I see.)
Dat's right - come to me in mah sleep - wasn't no man - jist come to me in mah sleep - a man tole me to do it and ah did it and last night made de six days - my wife walked in de house last night after twelve 'clock - knocked on de do' and tole me to let her come in. [At this point in the transcription an original note of mine reads, "Some untranscribed material about his wife."] No, heah how it started. Dey tuk de liquor and dey put somepin in it. See, when dey put stuff in dere like dat, no telling what - it gits yore mind, gits yo' dull and gits in yore brains. See. Every month, jest de date dey give it to you, every month dat dat you gits foolish head - den you Wanta do jest what dey Want chew to do. [See subsection Time in this section.] See. De chillun kept tellin' me about it - say, "Mama jest sets round dere an' cry-babying an' [we] say what de matter and she say dere ain't nothin' in her." Dey say, "Dere's somepin in her." Dat spell was working on her more an more and at last one Saturday night ah go home and to de chillun, ah say, "Where yo' mama?" They say] "Mama tuk her coat and left," and she stayed about a day. Ah went and talked with her and ah said, "What's the matter sweetheart?" And she jest cried and cried, "Ah don't know." Well, ah said, "Yo' come on home." She come on back home. About two months after that she was gone agin - she stayed about three days den. Ah go talk wit her and she come back home agin. But ah'd taken her to dis Father Abraham and he told her she was witchcrafted. He give her somepin out of de Bible to drink and some water -
(He had taken something out of the Bible and some what?)
He'd taken what he got out de Bible - some sort somepin, he made a little pill out of and give it to her [probably a Bible-text pill]. She got all right den, see, fer about a month. (Father Abraham is up here at Lottie, Florida Lottie, Florida - dey buried him last week. An' he say, "Yo' witchcraft - dat's your trouble." And he prayed some kind of prayer over her - put his hand on her haid. She got all right fer about a couple of months. Ah go home and she was laying on de floor stiff. Ah pick her up and say, "What de matter." She didn't know nothing. Next morning I'd taken her back to him. Ah give dat fellah $200. All right, she got all right fer about a couple of months. He says fer to stay from around dem people, say, "You'll be all right, but every time you go around dem, dey doubles yore dose on yo'. See. An' she laid [stayed] home agin. Ah'm telling you she stayed den three weeks. All right, ah goes to Beaufort, where ah was telling you about where ah went. Ah give dat fellah three dollars - Dr. Robinson - and I mean he had plenty people round dere to see him. He put that thing to his ear and he say, "Seven days and if she ain't come back under seven days - seven days, she'll be dere. But she ain't gon'a be stationery - she ain't going to stay." [He] say, "You bring her here to me and ah'll take it off her." But ah never be able to take her dere. She come back in de seven days. She come back in de seven days jest lak ah count de days, see, de seventh day on de minute she walks in after sundown.
(She came back last night, did you say?) [No, I am mistaken.]
Dat de seven days he talking about, see. She worked all right fer about two months round dere er [or] three months. Three months after that, three months from last night she was gone - walked out agin and she been gone three months. Ah went to diff'rent root people, ah been all over. Dere's plenty of dem here in dis town - plenty of 'em tell yo' dey kin do things, whether they done do it er not, see. And ah spent money with white wimmens, colored wimmins, colored men jest thrown mah money away and so ah been worried. You know about how ah been feeling - every time ah go home, de chillun say, "When yo' goin' git mama to come home?" Ah say, "Ah don't know." She'd go out once a week and see de chillun but she sneak away fore ah git dere. Dey put a spell on her to make her spirit die - make her hate me, see. An' dat spirit brought dat to me what to do, see. Dat's why ah'm telling yuh, I know it goin' work - nobody have to tell me. Now, you know when ah started to work on that - last Sunday night. It ain't been six days. See, you go to dat tree jest like ah tell you with a piece of pine board - don't make no diff'rent whether it is big or not - and yo' looking at de good limb wit de leaves on it, see, and you start to de head and call her name three times and you knock off some of dem leaves each time you call - jest three times - and stick dat stick in de ground, not up on de tree - stick it where nobody won't see it. See. An' you go back dere - you do's it fer three days and three nights. And de last night she walk in dere twelve 'clock wit her clothes under her arm. Dis mawnin' ah said, "Well." Ah knowed she was coming, see, 'cause de spirit had done showed it to me dat night wit her clothes coming - ah seed her plain wit her clothes coming. All right.
(What did she have to say?)
She knock on de door an' ah say, "Who dere?" She say, "Git up and open de door." She come in and ah say, "Why, you comin"' and she say, "Yeah, ah'm goin' stay now - ah ain't goin' no more - ah'm tired." Ah know where she was stayin'. She was stayin' tuh her aunty a while, stayin' over tuh her cousin a while - see jest scabering aroun' jest like somebody goin' away when she got her own home dere to stay tuh. But dey put a spell on her - she couldn't he'p it. Dis mawning she tole me. De chillun.say dey sure is glad to git her home. But she ain't exactly right yet - de spirits tell me it goin' wear off of her more and more.
Entry 570
Yo' kin take a earwax an' if a girl is got de bad disease an' yo' don't Want to ask her if she have it an' yo' don't know it an' she wanta turn a trick wit chew, well, yo' go an' git in de bed wit her an' take yore finger an' put it in yore ear lak dat [demonstrates] an' jes' take dat wax an' tech her; an' if she got it, she comin' out from undah yo', she cain't stay dere. Dat earwax will eat her up. [To turn a trick is known everywhere.] An' if yo' in a house an' yo' mistrustin' if anyone in dat house is got de bad disease an' yo' in dere an' yo' think dey got it, yo' jes' take a piece of red peppah, if it's in de fall of de yeah, an' throw a little piece on de fiah, an' yo' see 'em leave outa dere. Dey goin' outa dere - cain't stay in dere.
Entry 571
Yo' take a chicken aig - yo' take that aig an' hold it up, look at it jest that very way. Well, now, if dere's a person have did anything an' yo' Wants tuh find out 'bout it, yo' take that aig an' yo' hold it up that-a- way: Now, dere's a certain Way to break dat aig, an' yo' kin go directly to de person whut did dese thing: Yo' break de aig - some folks break it 'cross, but chew break it straight.
(Break it the long way.)
Yeah, de long way. De reason yo' break it de long way - dat holds all de yellow part right together. Take dat yellow den an' put it in a glass. Yo' put it in a glass an' yo' take a magnifying glass an' look through it an' yo' kin see de streets an' de shape of de person, de way dey goin'.
(This is to find out who your enemy is and where he lives.)
That's right, anywhere yo' enemy is why yo' kin take it dere - take a magnifying glass an' look through it an' yo' kin tell 'zactly which side dey coming or which way dey is.
Entry 572
Well, this is fact - ah seen this. Ah went with a girl once to a hoodoo an' her husban' wus sick, an' he wus with anothah woman. See. An' he stayed sick, jes' goin' bad. An' so he tole her tuh go back an' look in de pillah an' she'd find a ball of strange feathers in dere. An' so she went back and she got de feathers out an' it wus a ball of owl feathers dat he wus sleepin' on. Yo' see, yo' take dose owl feathers an' yo' put 'em in yore pillah, see dey won't mix - dey ain't goin' mix wit de othah feathers, dey'll ball up together. An' sleep on it, see, an' dat runs yo' crazy, kill yo'.
(What did they do with them then, those feathers?)
Dey took 'em an' throwed 'em in de rivah, an' dat runs de othah person on 'bout dere business.
(The hoodoo man - was he colored or white?)
He wus colored.
Entry 573
A woman in Georgia said if yo' got a pain about chew anywhere, said, take a frog an' don't kill him, but jes' lay him in de palm of yore hand or wherevah de pain wus an' dey tie him an' let him stay there. An' dey say, if he dies, yore poisoned; if he don't die, then yo' are not poisoned.
Entry 574
You kin take and kill a frog and tie it on your hand [or other suspected place] and that frog will turn green if you are fixed and dry up hard; and if you are not fixed, that frog will remain like he is.
A killed frog is described in a conditional test for being fixed; its alleged changes are unverified.
Entry 575
It's a gambling hand - that's what 'tis. Ah did that mahself - like yo playin' numbers - yo' ketch you a toadfrog and take yo' a indelicate [indelible] pencil and jest de numbers you wanta win on, put it on that frog's stomach and ev'ry time dat frog go - it [must] turn and go [jump] - before you gon'a win.
[See also Frog in subsection Hand.]
The informant calls it a gambling hand and claims to have tried it; no winning outcome is established.
Entry 576
I know a fellow, a schoolmate of mine down in King George [County, Virginia], he worked in New Jersey years ago and most everyone took him to be a cunjure and fortune-teller, which he was not. But his father was a Southerner from Louisiana and he [the son] also believed in cunjuration. And while he worked in New Jersey, it was an old colored family and the old man was sick, and someone told him about this man that came from Virginia who was supposed to be a cunjure. And this [supposed] cunjure didn't like to work hard and he thought he would make some easy money. So he went to the home of this old family and had a talk with the old man, and he was convinced that he also believed in cunjuration. And after he talked with them awhile, he said he could cure the old man. The old man was sick. After he found out they believed in him, he went to work and he said he could cure him for fifty dollars and put the spell back on the woman who put it on him. So he went away that night and came back another dark night. Being very late at night, he planted a bottle under the doorsill containing button hooks [hooks and eyes] and needles and pins, and he had a coloring, some liquid in a bottle. He hid it under the doorsill and came back another night. So the next night he brought with him a simlin [or simling] gourd [= simnel, a squash in U. S. A.] which he had sawed in two and sealed up with a live frog inside. And then he told the man he would tell him in a few moments what was wrong. If no one hadn't thrown a hand [Throw for, in Indexl at him, he did not want his money. So the old map was satisfied. Then he laid the gourd before the fireplace with the live frog inside and says, "Gourd, gourd, you have never lied to me, and don't lie to me tonight." Then he put his hand acrost his eyes and he said, "If anything is wrong, move, move, move," three times, of [on] which the frog began to get warm. He [the frog] was a little slow in moving so he [conjurer] stood up [closer to the fire]. And he knew the gourd was going to move because the frog was inside. By that time the gourd got hot and the frog made one jump. And he said, "Move again." And the gourd moved. And said, "Move again." The gourd moved off the fireplace between the old man's legs that was sick. He was setting in a chair. And he says, "Mister, I told my wife I was cunjured. Now I know it and you know it." So he told the cunjure the money was ready whenever he would cure him. So the cunjure said it would take about three weeks, because the person that put the spell on him was a far off. So the cunjure went home that night knowing that he had some easy money coming. He went in the woods the next day and got some pokeberry roots and red oak bark and saxafras [sassafras] roots and cooked it together and made a tea, which is got for rheumatism, [I] don't care how [long] standing, because his father cured himself with the very same remedy. So he came back three days later to the old man's home and brought a pint of this tea that he had made, and told him to take a tablespoonful three times a day before each meal, which he did. And inside of one week he was feeling much better. And the following Sunday this cunjure came back to see how the old man was. And the old man said, "Boy, I'm feeling fine. Come over one night next week and I will give you half of the money." The cunjure didn't wait a week. He came back the third day with another pint and told him to double the dose, which the old man did. And at the end of the second week the old man's rheumatism was gone. And instead of giving him twenty-five dollars he gave him fifty and just spread his name abroad. And the cunjure still lives today and said he made over three-hundred dollars just for this good remedy which his father cured himself. And lots of other people that don't know him go and see him today, for he still lives. He still lives in King George as a cunjure, of which he knows nothing about.
Entry 577
Wal, ah'll tell yo' a incident 'bout where a cunjuration did good. Ah came heah and ah knew an ole party dat came from out in Ohio somewhere - moved right down in de same place called Hick's Bottom right heah in Richmond. An' those people - a man [old man from Ohio] an' his nephew came an' dey were nice to me when ah wus a boy an' ah nevah fo'got 'em. So when ah went in de Navy an' came back heah agin, why, ah found out that de old man wus very ill, an' mah grandmothah tole me dat de only trouble wit de old man wus dat he believed dat he wus cunjured. An' he stayed in de house, he didn't git any de fresh air, he didn't git any exercise. Now, she say, all he needed wus a bath, some exercise, fresh air an' some good food. So ah went tuh a friend of mine wus in de racket - wus a root doctor an' one thing anothah yo' know." But he knew dat ah'ad onlv but so much belief. vo' know, in it. So, he consented to come an' help de ole man out from it. But ah had tuh work on de old man's superstitions to do him any good. So ah tole him dat ah wus goin' bring him a papa loi - a good cunjure doctor, yo' understand. (A papa loi - it used to be down in Haiti they called them that, a papa loi or a mama loi?) Yeah.
(How did you get that word - have you been down in Haiti?)
Yes - ah been in Haiti but ah've been roun' wit so many West Indians in New Yawk, see, an' we all talk it ovah, yo' know, sometime. An' sometime ah kinda believe mahself, but - ah don' know. Anyway, we'll skip dat. So, dis ole man - we'll omit his name. An' aftah mama, mah grandmothah, tole me whut wus whut, ah talked to dis friend of mine who dabbled in de stuff, an' he say he had de han' an' all dat kinda stuff, see. An' he had a black cat bone himself, see, tied aroun' his neck. But, anyway, he goes tuh de ole man an' de ole man had confidence in me, so he put hisself in de han's of dis man - see, dis cunjure doctor. So when ah explain to dis cunjure doctor jes' whut wus whut.
(Did you tell the cunjure doctor that he wasn't hurt or that he was?)
Ah tole him jes' whut wus whut. Well, he tole me dat he wus goin' take de spell off him. Dis cunjure doctor had a gourd - yo' know whut a gourd is, a small gourd - dat yo' use tuh drink outa, but a small one. He had put a hole in his gourd an' he had put in dis gourd, woodbugs an' worms an' things lak dat, an' he sealed it back up again. Well, he tole de ole man dat he had tuh have a tub of hot watah, twelve 'clock at night but not at de full moon - when de moon wus goin' off. Well, dat's when yo' git de fifth moon - de [something?] moon. [His fifth moon = dark of the moon, the few days interval between full and new moon.] So he had tuh have dis hot watah at midnight an' it must be midnight when de Cycle is changin' - well, ever' man know whut a cycle means - an' dat he had tuh have moon soap: In dose days yo' sold soap called moon soap, but it jes dat Octagon soap [trade name] dat had a [picture of the] moon on it. An' it didn't have a full moon either - it had a moon jes' about de size of a moon when it's fulla watah. [Evidently I comment "a crescent while my machine is stopped.] Dat's it - a crescent. So, he had tuh have this soap. So, in de meantime he gits a pastebo'd pillbox - dat is de cunjure doctor - an' he puts a few grubworms an' bugs in dere, an' rock salt, an' so forth, an' he puts that in his pocket. Well, at sharp twelve a'clock he puts de ole man in de tin tub, yo' know, a regular washtub. See. An' he begin tuh give de ole man a bath. Well, plenty dirt wus comin' off. So, in de meantime, he put de gourd on de table. He puts his pipe near de gourd. So, he says, "Spirits, tell me, hokus-pocus or some kinda words or ritual he used, yo' know, an' he grabbed de ole man an' he pinch him [see Pinch in Index] - pinched de ole man. He says, Have ah got im, have ah got 'im, spirits, have ah got 'im?" But in de meantime he push his pipe close up tuh de gourd. Well, de heat from his pipe goes tuh de gourd an' dat makes de worms move - de heat makes de worms move. Well, de gourd would move. Well, den, de ole man's eyes would git big as dat [demonstrates with his eyes] yo' know. When he see de gourd he figured de spirits wus in dat gourd showin' off. Well, when he pinch him an' do dat, an' de gourd roll, he would reach in his pocket an' drop in de tub a bug or a worm, see. Well, he kept dat up - see, continuously an' he give de ole man a hot bath. He give him a good rubdown. It wus whut de ole man really needed, ah guess. He tole de ole man not to empty that tub until de sun wus directly ovahhead de next day, an' he wus tuh keep it covered, an' when he empty it out, empty it out so he see it an' he would see jes' whut was in it, that he had re'lly gotten it out of him. An' he tole de ole man dat he wus bein' hoodooed, yo' understan', between de hours of five an' six a'clock, an' fo' him tuh git out ever' mawnin' at quarter tuh five, so dat when dis cunjure person dat wus puttin' dis trick on 'im - when he sprinkle down dis goofer dust so it wud make him have itchin' fut an' run hisself tuh death - see, so dat he wouldn't be dere [in the house] an' it wouldn't work on 'im. An' then [after six o'clock when he reentered the house] he could keep his do' open. [See subsection Time.] So de next day at twelve noon when de sun wus ovahhead, de ole man empties his tub an' he finds dis rock salt, worms - grubworms an' bugs, an' de ole man swoah [swore] dat dis cunjure doctor had taken de spell off him. So de ole man would take his bath - he tole him tuh take his bath every Sunday befo' de week change, befo' de Sabbath change into de workday. De ole man had so much belief, he followed dem instructions. Every mawnin' at quartah tuh five yo' would fin' dat ole man goin' up de railroad track, walkin' - an' he wus supposed tuh walk out into de country. An' he'd git back at six a'clock. Den, whoevah wus sprinklin' dis goofer dust down fo' him, see, wouldn't harm him. Dat ole man followed those instructions - an' he wus tole not tuh eat any fried food, see - nuthin' but boiled food - dat de steam an' de moisture would carry 'way all de goofer dust an' cunjure an' so forth - de steam would carry it away - nuthin' but boiled food. An' dat ole man followed dem instructions an' when ah came through heah five yeahs latah, he wus workin' in de Tredical works where dey handle iron.
(Where was he working?)
In de Treadical works - Treadical[?] Iron Works, an' dat jes' build him up by havin' de belief an' confidence. Now, dat's a incidence where it did good. Dere's one ah fo'got tuh tell while ah wus tellin' dis. Now, yo' want me tuh tell vo' dat about it?
[I probably nodded, yes.]
He wus told - he made de ole man trim his corns an' trim his toenails. He tole him tuh keep his toenails short because de goofer dust would git undah his toenails an' it wus harder an' cost him mo' to git it out - to git de spell off him if it got undah his toenails. An' dat ole man followed those instructions. Of co'se, de ole man had tuh give him money - see, he had tuh give him money. An' ah think de ole man give him a coupla dollahs, but it wus bettah den a doctor's prescription.
Entry 578
She [the informant's aunt] lingered along sick an' she sent to get a man from de South to come up here an' see about it. Well, when he came it wus too late; she had a hole in her back. He told her that she wus cunjured an' he would begun to verked [worked] on 'er. An' he told 'er dat it would be insex that came from 'er body. The first he got wus a snake, an' nex' he got two crabs. An' then he begin to doctor on her again. An' he told her dat some [ground] puppies would be [in her], an' told her if de puppies came out an' didn't look back an' bark at her, dat he could cure 'er; but if dey came out an' looked back an' bark at her, he wouldn't cure 'er. So the first one came out an' he vent runnin' on out de door into de front; de nex' one came out, he went runnin' out de door into de front; an' de nex' one came out, he got fer as de front doah an' looked back at her an' bark. An' in ten minutes after that she wus dead. So they took de puppies an' put 'em in some alcohol. [Wilmington, N. Car., (205), 197:3.] [Ground puppy = the hellbender, aquatic salamander (Cryptobranchus allenganiensis), common in streams of Ohio Valley and up to 18 inches.] 1
Entry 579
Ah has been told that if he has an enemy in the town that he's living in seeking to take his life. An' so he has in mind of taking a red handkerchief, using a red handkerchief as a flag or as, we might say, a protection to himself, an' he attaches it to a standing boxcar but is ready, of course, to be pulled off by an engine. An' he attaches it there an' waits until the train pulls off an' [he] stands an' looks toward that train as long as he can see it, an' if that flag that he attached to the boxcar is on there at his last sight, as long as he can see it, why that's a sign that he will have a chance to get out of the town an' he leaves. See, but, if this flag drops off beforetime, why it's a warning to him that he's to be cut off befo' evah he'll have a chance to git out of the town.
(In other words, he uses this flag to find out what's going to happen to him.)
If it's safe fo' him to stay in the town or to leave. An' if the flag stays on, why he has a chance to leave town an' will leave, but if the flag drops off, yo' see, he conceives the idea that he has no chance.
Entry 580
I remember when the town [Hampton, Virginia] first went dry and they didn't allow any bootlegging, so they said, and two or three people got caught with their whiskey and a stiff fine was put upon them. So thereafter there came a man from Newport News [Virginia] to Hampton, going from one place to another, saying he could prevent the law from coming to my house and that I could go and sell all the whiskey I wanted to and the law could not bother me. So I took it in my charge that I would try him. I had taken in my house fifty gallons of liquor and I began to distribute it from one place to the other. Sometimes I would look out and see the law coming and was wondering whether or not they were coming to my house. I can say with a clear conscience that the day I saw the man and paid him one hundred and fifty-three dollars and fifty-three cents for this instrument, and I can say and witness the fact, that the law has never been to my house since that occasion. He gave me an instrument and told me to hang it by my stove and leave it stay there, and whensoever I saw the law coming, to take it down and put it on the table and the law would turn around and go back. It kin'a resembled a hog bladder or something of that sort. When the law was coming in your direction, this instrument would puff out, and you could always look out your casement and see the law; and then you would take it down and put it on the table, and the law would turn around and go back. Then this bag would come down to its normal size.
Entry 581
[The following divination device is usually known as Jack, but he has other names. I have never heard him named for a woman. A person asks guestions of Jack. His answers by swinging have at times given him the nickname talking hand (see FACI, 1st ed., p.622; 2ed., p.799). Technically, Jacks are hands. For more examples, see Jack in Index.] When I first come from the country [from near Spotsylvania Court house to Fredericksburg] I was eighteen years old - I'm eighty-one now [1936]. I worked in the paper mill with this man. He wanted to learn me to make money by cunjuration. He had a little ball with something he put in it. He would speak to this ball. It was wool - flannel. He would speak to this ball and itwould go first one way then the other. The ball hung on a string. Anything he would ask this ball would twist around. He would sell you this thing for so much money. "John, now, I want you to be my guide today: If anything is in my way I want you to tell me." He made money on it. He gave this ball a name. He called it John. And John would tell him if anybody was doing anything for good or anything for harm. He was a cunjure himself. He only made this ball and sold them.
Entry 582
I used to go to an old man's house and he had a bag and he called that bag Jack. It was long and big at one end and kinda small at the other end. The string Was tied to the small end - red flannel covered the bag. And then when you would ask him any questions he would take this bag and hold it up [by the stringl and stand still and let it strike the question you asked. If you asked him if this person was hurt, this bag would spin around like a top; if he wasn't hurt, it would stand still. You asked the question, he didn't say anything at all.
Entry 583
Then they had another one they called John the Conquer. It wus made in a little - somepin wus cut in [out of] wood about as big as my thumb. An' the bottom of it wus about as big as my two fingers an' the top wus like my thumb. It wus about that [several inches] long. It looked like it wus jis' a roun' little piece of wood cut out with a neck to it. The bottom wus heavy an' the top wus light. Well, he had somepin in that bottom there [as a weight] I reckon. I don't know whut he had in there. Anyway, you'd [he'd] take it an' set it up an' Says, "Now, So-an'-So - where is he? Which a-way he a-goin'?" He'll be settin' there. "Which a-way Sich-an'-sich?" He'll call your name. An' it'll rock which a-way you goin'. I don't know how it did it. But it'd rock which a-way you're goin'. An' he said, "How long he gon'a be gone?" If it would make two bows, he said it wus a hour each bow.
Entry 584
Making a Jack.
(Making a Jack? Well, how do they do that?)
Well, that's out of red flannen [flannel].
(I see. Well, tell me how they do that.)
Well, ah tell yah. You see, now, that's like you say I wanta find out where my husband at tonight. Well, I will take this piece of red flannen, you see. I will make a little Jack, if his name is Jack - I'll say [for example] I'll make William, and I make it re'lly small, and then I will take the rest of the thread and I holds it up in the front of my eyes and I will talk to it just like I was talking to you. I say, "If he is gone to his meeting or gone to his church" - wher'enever he is gone - ah looking right at Jack, or William or Sam - you got'a name him whatever he is named.
(You give him the name of the man you are talking about?)
Yes. Yes, and I hold it by the thread - hit so long but it not larger then your finger is, you see [demonstrates].
(Like a little bag.)
And I say, "Now, you tell me where is he?" Well, if he is gone to his church or gone to his lodge meeting, Jack will swing back and forwards to you. If he isn't, that will stay solid still.
(I see - you ask these questions and it will swing or it won't swing?)
Yes.
Entry 585
(How do you find this money now?)
With John de Conker. [This is rare, to call Jack by the name of a root within the package or bag. Root bags as hands are common.]
(And how do you prepare that?)
Well, yo' fix it in a flannel - sew it up in a flannel, yo' see an' keep it in yore pocket. Keep it perfumed [fed] wit Hearts Own perfume [sometimes confused with Heartsorn or Heartshorn = Hawthorn? perfume]. Put chew nine pins in it an' if yo' go out 'cross de way anywhere - cross de field whare dere's any money buried, it'll point. Yo' talks to it - it's got a string on de side - an' yo' talk to it an' jest where dat money is it's goin' point directly where dat money are.
(Well, you don't point in your pocket though?)
No, yo' has to take it out chere pocket. See, it's got a little string on to it. Dis John de Conker yo' know, it's got little roots to it - all roots kind lak a [centipede?]. [A small piece of John de Conker has so many root hairs it looks like a centipede.]
Entry 586
( Get some dirt from de grave an' put some lodestone in dere, put some dragon's blood and put a piece of John de Conker, put a piece of Eve and Adam root - puts dem togedder and sew dem up tight.
(Put them in a bag?)
In a piece of red flannin and sew dem tight and you wears it somewheres around you fer two or three days and he [enemy] come around and if he annoys you, you take aholt dat, it be's hot [if an enemy is near], and you carry dat by de string you know - a little piece of string about dat long and you hold on to dat [end of the string so that the bag or sack hangs free] and you talk to 'im, "Come on, Jack, any enemy around me? Any enemy coming toward me?" And he'll [Jack will] move - if he don't move, there ain't nothing wrong.
Entry 587
(This is the lucky hand you say - and how is that made?)
It made with peppah an' salt an' a penny or a dime.
(A penny or a dime?)
Yes - an' sew it up in a piece of red flannel. An' dere's a string left to it an' when yo' git ready to - fo' anything to happen in yore favor, you hold it by de string lak dat an' talk to it. An' when yo' git ready tuh go 'way, yo' say, "When ah git ready tuh leave heah - when ah git ready tuh leave dis country, ah hope ah nevah come back."
(That thing will revolve?)
If yo' de nerve tuh go. When it stops, den yo' go. Well, ah tried dat once mahself - ah heard it an' ah tried it.
(What do they call that little bag?)
Dey call dat a lucky hand.
(You ask questions of it?)
Yeah. An' hit goes certain ways, an' whatevah it says, yo' do.
Entry 588
I seed dis. He had dis bottle, little black bottle, looked lak somepin into it like leaves[?] [see later], and he talked to it, you know, and it would bow. "Well Jack, tell me so-and-so. Now Jack, tell me de troof." And that would bow to him. He'd hold de bottle in his hand and hold a string. He had dat string on de end of de bottle and he'd hold dat bottle up, you know, and he'd talk to it and it would bow, you know. [To bow meant 'yes"' - not to bow, 'no."] He said, "Now, you tell me de troof, Jack. Jack don't you lie to me, now." It [the bottle] was kinda white but de stuff into was black, black as that [points to my discarded black hat containing concealed microphone - see Hat, my black, in Index.]
(How long ago was that?)
Oh, I guess it's been fifty years [1876].
(Where did you see that?)
Oh, between Stockton and Girdletree [Worcester Co., on Eastern Shore].
Entry 589
Ah kin tell yo' a way dat he kin find out whether dat wus so. Jes' say dat wus his wife down dere - when he wants tuh go out with another woman, take his pocketknife, an' when him an' her git down to, yo' know - stick it right up in de ground or in de flo' by dem, an' if his nature won't come, why she's [wife has] got him tied [unable to have another woman]. Now to loose dat, ah don't know, but ah have been told two ways on dat - wear a silver dime in de left shoe fo' de woman. Den ah wus told another one - take a silver dime an' - see, dis is his private - fo' nine mornin's rub it up dere - dat silver dime once fo' nine mornin's. (Rub the silver dime on the side of his - once each morning for nine mornings. That is supposed to restore his nature.)
Entry 590
Yeah, you kin git a piece of lodestone and you kin go to de drug store and git you some turpentine - not de one you drink. You know some turpentine you gits you kin drink it - put on sugar or something like dat and take it, but chew don't git dat kind. You git de kind you can't - you see, you rub wit it but you can't drink it. Well, you kin take dat and if anybody tryin' to do you anything you know, you take dat and sulphur and burn it and dey couldn't do you nothing - dey couldn't stand you, dey wouldn't have nothing to do with you.
(What do you do with that lodestone?)
Well, dat lodestone, it just let you know when anything critical or wrong - you see, it just keep movin'.
(What do you mean?)
Oh, well, dat turpentine - you keep dat lodestone and den at times you jes' take dat turpentine and wet it [lodestone], chew know. And den jes' like if anybody's tryin' to do anything to you or putting down anything for yuh - well, dat lodestone, it would move, you know. You could feel it movin' in yo' pocket or somepin like dat and then you kin jus' rub yourself jest all over, you know, with dat turpentine and just burn it with sulphur an' old shoe, and that will kill that whatsomever it is.
Entry 591
Take matches, yessuh, an' put 'em in a shoe an' take his shoes an' place 'em undah de head of yore bed an', if yo' wanta find if it's a person whether yo' goin' tuh marry 'em or not, an' yo' cross those shoes an' place 'em jes' lak a T an' don't say a word to anybody when yo' goin' tuh bed, an' yo'll dream yo' goin' tuh marry dat person. Yo'll dream about 'em that night.
(You put matches in each shoe. How many do you put in each shoe?)
Yes, in each shoe. Yo' put three matches in each shoe.
(Lighted or unlighted?)
No - unlighted.
Entry 592
Well, I've hear'd of 'em gittin' dirt from de fork of de road. Well, if a - you could go to the fork of the road and git dirt. You works with a mirror. You takes a mirror and you bury it at the fork of a road. Understand? And you let that mirror stay there for three days and afterward you digs this mirror up, and you don't want to be de first one to look into it. Let a cat, either a dog, look into it first. Then after that you can know just what you wants to know through this mirror if anything coming against you.
(You can see it in that mirror?)
Yes, sir - that what ah knows about the fork in the road.
Entry 593
Well, jes' befo' day, whatevah sign yo' wanta know - whut luck or whut performance it goin' be - first we gotta git our mind. Whatevah we mind tuh change, we git our mind on de mockin' bird. Well, he'll come somewhere on our premises, on de lot, an' if he come dere successful [successive] three mawnin's - three early mawnin's 'fore daylight, den we put ovah whatevah we undertake. It's de same as put ovah. Dat's our sign from de mockin' bird - comes three successful [successive] days.
Entry 594
If yo' think anyone got chew poisoned, yo' kin take three needles an' stick 'em in yore pillah, an' then yo' kin take one an' stick it in yore mouth. An' if dese needles turn black, why yo' know den yore poisoned. Dat's all ah know dat needles is good fo'. (You just stick the two needles in your pillow?) Dat's right - an' put one in yore mouth. (If the needle in your mouth turns black then you are poisoned.
Entry 595
To begin with in that I have been abnormally mistreated by. superstition what we call hoodoism. See. Well, in that my family was torn to pieces and I was just wrecked and jest now recovering from that. Now, when it come ah went to a hand reader to read mah hand. (Where did you go - here in town?) Yes - she read my hand - a white lady, and she told me of dese things without coming in contact with any of them. Being a minister I found what she said about people being torn in mah congregation - I found that to be true. She told me that I wouldn't be able to get along with 'em - ah found that true. Now, ah been married three times. This wife I have now - ah was told that they did not want me to have her, and hear say to de cause and de reason why they did not ["want me to have her"] and what they done to prevent me from her and have her return back home. Ah married her against her people's consent - they didn't want me to have her. Then they put in to take her from me and to kill me - that was, she said, because of my age, you see. They wanted me out of de way so she could come back home, and in that they give me all kind of trouble. A friend of mine, who was in my church at dat time, somehow or another got onto it and told me it was best for me to go see about it mahself. I'd done got into a kind of a wreck some way - my mind wasn't nuthin' and ah couldn't remember nor think nuthin' long - couldn't do no one thing completely - ah'd start and stop. (What did this woman do to tell you to get rid of this? Did they tell you what to do?) They told me what to do and give me something to protect myself - ah kin show you some of the things now - got 'em in my pocket. See 'em [he shows them]. (This white woman gave you this to carry ~ a white fortune-teller - a hand- reader?) Yes - a reader of cards. (It's a little tin box with - it's a large quinine capsule with red powder of some sort in there. Do you know what is in there?) No, ah don't.
(What is that supposed to do - you carry that?)
Well, that is supposed to give me success and prosperity and get by. Now, this dime was given - she told me to get a dime and put in mah pocket and handle it as much as ah could fo' three days. Now, it wasn't as colored as it is now, and at that time it was real bright as you could see. And she said whatever they Was trying to do, the dime would ketch it and turn like a copper cent. And sure as I sit here today and tell you, this is the same dime - only it jest like a copper cent. And den again, I could tell just as good when the thing was going to strike me and was on me, as I can tell I'm sitting here.
(How can you tell that?)
By mah feet - by de way ah felt, and I had kind of strikes in mah toes - big toes, each one of them - and I couldn't hardly stand the blow. Well, I had a strike de side of de head like somebody struck me - it was sore for several days.
[I repeat one thing he said while machine was off for lack of interest:]
(Six people made a wish for you - gave you this bad luck?)
Yes - made a wish fo' me - an' then they was intendin' that ah'd die and mah wife come back home - right heah in dis city. Ah's pastor heah.
Entry 596
Yo' kin take a fellah whut had a peg-laig yo' know an' he die, an' when he die why yo' git dat knee-cap off an' use hearts cologne an' whiskey on it, an' tote it in yore pocket, an' yo' know, when yore luck come on hit would jump, an' then, yo' know that would give yo' more attention to bet mo'.
Entry 597
Jes' lak dey say somebody got chew down - yo' can't rise an' strive wit nuthin'. Dey got somepin roun' yore house fo' yo' an' de way yo' kin tell - dey say yo' kin nuse [use] dis bluestone an' red peppah while bathin' yore foot with it; yo' know, washin' yore feet with it. An' den yo' tote cookin' salt an' de red peppah in yore shoes - wear that an' make a pad like an' wear dat in yore shoes. An' if it's true, when yo' strike it yo'll know 'cause yo' give in to yore knee.
(You do what?)
Yo' give 'way - go down - give 'way tuh yore knees. Yo'll know when yo' run cross it.
(That is if you wear anything like this bluestone?)
Yeah, see, yo' have tuh nuse dis bluestone washin' yore feet an' it eat it up, an' ev'ry mawnin' befo' de sunrise, why yo' throw out chure night chamber lye yo know an' bluestone an' cookin' salt soaked in it, chew know - throw dat out - all round yore house - yo' know whut ah mean - put it all round yore house an' it kill it out. (Well, now what would cause you to sag in your knees - your knees get weak - what causes you to do that?) Say yo' run cross de root - de devilment ever whut it is dey got round dere fo'yo'- when yo' hit it why dat peppah an' salt weakens it but it let chew know yo' hit it 'cause yo go down. (In other words, as soon as you hit it, that pepper and salt will let you know by letting your knees get weaker.) Yassuh - go jes' lak yo' drop a curtsy.
Entry 598
In 1888 I was well and hearty and doing daily labor, and a man told me to my face that he Would fix me. And I asked the boss what time it was and he told me it was half past five o'clock. And I was breaking on cracked stone. And I fell backwards and I was carried away from the place by two white men and I didn't know nothing from how I got home. And one old gentleman told me that two white men brought me home on their shoulders. And I asked this old gentleman haven [have] the sun gone down yet. I was not of my mind until the next day three o'clock. I sent for the doctor and he told me that he didn't know what to say about my case. And I taken with a swellen in my right leg, and then I had a pain in my hip, and I had it from that day to this, and I have been in with this misery since 1888. [At this point the informant's wife broke into the story to say that at first her husband had not suspected conjuration:] He was home here years before I was showed by the Lord in the Spirit that something was wrong with him. The Spirit told me that something was wrong, he was hurt. [She then described this spiritual revelation at length, but so rapidly that it was impossible to write it down. She was so suspicious of my intentions that she would not repeat the story, nor would she tell me anything about conjuration. Finally, the old man gave an account of his experience with the first root doctor who tried to cure him.] The fellow took me upstairs and asked me to cut a pack of cards. I told him I didn't know nothing about cards, "I never had a pack in my hand in my life and you'll have to show me how to cut them," and taken them and shuffled them and laid them down and told me to shuffle them out three in a pack [make four- teen packs of three cards each]. And he said, "I'm going to tell you who hurt you. You have been hurt." And he caught me by the toe [patient was barefoot] and show me right where the poison went up. And it went in my hip and swellen my leg up. He showed me who done it on the cards. He took a card from each pack and held them before me, and it appear to me that it was the man and woman and I had to confess [to the identity]. I recognized them but I ain't calling no names. And he said that he could cure me if my nerves would allow me to take the medicine he would give. And that's about all he told me. He gave me some dark medicine in a bottle. It had whiskey in it. And he told me I had to get a lot of whiskey and I got seven gallons. And he made the medicine and gave it to me. But my system was gone so weak that I couldn't take the medicine. That's what he told me. And he swoll me up so, he told me to cut the dose down three tablespoonful three times a day. Then I cut them down one half spoonful. And I found that it didn't do me no good and I quit. I went to see two or three fortune tellers and they told me the some thing. [Fredericksburg, Va., about ten miles out in the country, (65), by hand, no electricity.] [The dark medicine could have been black draft, frequently used by doctors - see Index. Whiskey is too often the chief ingredient of doctor-made medicine.]
Entry 599
Well, ah'm sorta man - ah ain't no crazy man jealous. Ah works fo' mah livin', do ever'thing ah kin in de worl' fo' mah woman, if ah had one, but ah ain't got nobody but mahself now - haven't been fo' yeahs. But ah'm a jealous man, see whut ah mean, but ah ain't crazy. An' a woman come up fo' murder heah at Florala, Alabama. Ah reckon yo' heah talk of dat. Well, ah married her dere an' ah brought her back tuh mah home an' we live together down heah a couple of yeahs. An' she took advantage of me. A lotta people says dat a person can't do nuthin' to yo' lessen dey git something in yo' dere to stay. Dey kin take advantage of yo'. Well now, while me an' her has transaction, she got mine de same as ah would git hers, see. She got me an' dressed mah side of mah bed up. See, she know whut side ah sleep on, an' she dressed it all an' she got me so dat ah didn't pay any 'tenshun to her.
(What did she do when she dressed it?)
She got her sickness an' dres8ed it up an' got mine with hers an' put it in some flannel rag. She got a new one an' got mine an' hers together, an' she cut de fo' corners off it, see - lak de fo' corners of de world. Well, she dry hit by de sun, see, an' she bandage dat up an' dressed dat up an' had her piece wit dat. Well, she got me crazy by that - ah didn't care whut she done, how she come an' how she go. Ah wouldn't say a word. It tickle me tuh see her enjoy herself. Well, ah knowed that weren't nachural an' ah went to a man an' he fixed me. Ah went to a man at mah home an' he fixed me so that ah could come tuh mah- self - said, ah come back to mahself. Well, ah went back home an' ah tole her, "Well, that's all right. Yo' took advantage of me." Ah went dere Sunday an' Sunday night ah woke her up an' said, "Well, listen" - ah wake her up, say, "ah want talk wit yo' a little bit." She asked me, "Whut's de mattah?" So de main thing wus, "Ah ain't angry with yo' an' ah know yo' ain't with me, but we cain't stay tuhgethah any longah, 'cause ah done done de best dat ah know how. If yo' fix me one way yo' fix me anothah." An' ah said, "Bess, in de mawnin' ah'll take yo' back to yo' mother.' Thought, well, maybe some day when ah cain't he'p mahself, ah may call on her tuh do me a favor, see. "Ah'm goin' take yo' back 'way from me." So dat Monday mawnin' ah took her an' carried her back home an' told her mothah ever'thing, how it was. Well, ah came back agin tuh dis man an' he dressed me again.
(Do you know what he did?)
Yessuh.
(What did he do the first time you went there?)
De first time dat ah went dere he - now, ah tell yo' de kinda man he are. He's a lady-hearted man. He won't do nuthin' tuh harm anybody, he 11 take it off yo'. He had a pack of lil' cards dere an' dey didn't have no diamonds or nuthin' on 'em - jes' wimmin's on 'em. Had some wimmins on dose cards, an' he kept turnin' 'em up an' he handed me two, an' he kept turnin' 'em off till he got where he wanted to. So dat's all right. So he took dem back an' he give me two leaves an' he crossed 'em an' ah took 'em in dis han' an' ah couldn't turn 'em loose. Ah couldn't turn 'em loose until he got 'em. He said, "Well, ah know where it's at now." He said, "It's in yore haid." Ah said, "All right." An' he got up an' went off in his othah room an' come back in dere an' he stood up behin' mah haid an' caught me in de back of mah neck, in de spine of mah neck right dere an' he caught me dere an' ah heah him sayin' somepin - he wus prayin' or somepin. An' it jes felt lak ah wus - did yo' evah tote a load an' put it down an' it felt lak yo raisin' [it] up agin? Well, he dressed me dere twice lak dat, an' ah ain't been troubled wit dat woman an' ain't thought about her no mo' an' done fo'got about her.
(What did she do to you, fix you up so that you couldn't do anything?)
Well, ah couldn't fuss with her, see, about nuthin' she'd do.
(You just took everything she did?)
Everything.
(Was it a colored man or a white man told you this?)
It wus de white man straighten me out.
(Did he tell you how this was done?)
Yessuh.
(And what did he say that she did to you to make you that way?)
A lizard. Jes' took dis lizard an' skin dis lizard an' laid him out so many days an' dried him until he come tuh be a ashes. Well, she took dis an' den put it in mah hat, an' took mah bow outa mah hat. Well, she done somepin tuh dat bow but he didn't nevah finish tellin' me. Ah's tuh go back an' he told me he'd finish tellin' me de rest of it. Well, ah didn't nevah go back to him to finish tellin' me all of it, but he tole me dat much. An' well, ah went in dere dis man, he'd rub mah haid up lak dat an' when he'd rub mah haid up, ah'm tellin' yo' true, it jes' felt lak ah had a hundred pound of lead on me.
Entry 600
Mah husband, he wus witchcraft heah a little before Christmas, an' when he begin, he begin as a chills-an'-fevah. An' course I didn't know, you know, right then [that he was witchcraft] an' I had de doctor - de medical doctor. They say he had the flu. An' so he wusn't whut you call real, you know, sick like a medical doctor, you know. The medicine he give 'im - he give 'im medicine an' it didn't seem to do him no good. So his mind led 'im that he knew it wusn't pure sickness. So I had my fortune told an' it [her husband's sickness] wusn't pure natural. [This is diagnosis by proxy.] So they fixed 'im - a root doctor fixed him some medicine. An' it holp him, too; but you see, jis' like they put somepin down for yah, all the medicine you take it won't cure you. So I had someone to come to pick it up. I don't know exac'ly whut it wus, but it wus down under the - kin'a in the south part of the house an' right in the middle, jis' like you walk over it. An' this filth, of course you have to step in it. An' they taken it up, an' after takin' it up, you know, they kill it. They kill it with salt. An' then I had to - after takin' it up they put salt on it, wash it off, an' put it in a paper an' let it dry. Then I had to take it an' put lye, an' sulphur, red pepper an' gunpowder, put it in a quart cup an' put a quart of water in it an' boil it airy bit of the water out it, right dry, an' then take an' care [carry] it to a runnin' water an', you know, put it in. That's called, that's turnin' back on the one that did it.
(What was this stuff that you found?)
I didn't look in it becuz I wus kin'a scared. It wus a package. One wus a package an' one's a bottle. I had taken 'im to de hospital, you see. Of course I didn't know it [was witchcraft]. The same day I taken 'im hospital, that's the day I had it taken up. An' the one take it up says he'd find some relief in twenty-four hours, but not till it wus taken up.
Entry 601
Yo' wants luck, wants re'l good luck, say yo' go ahead an' yo' ketch chew a rabbit an' yo' cut his foot off - cut off his front left foots whilst he's 'live, don't kill dis rabbit. Take him an' cut it off an' turn de rabbit loose. Wrap dis heah up - let it cure good an' wrap it up an' put it in yore pocket. An' dey says, while yo' got de rabbit, yo' keep de rabbit - put him in a pen-like a garden-like where yo' kin keep dis rabbit. An' says whenever yo' git ready to go to gamble somepin lak dat, yo' go an' yo' look at dis rabbit. If dis rabbit's a-movin' about in dere an' busy in dere, jes' movin' about, well yo' know yore luck's on. An' then yo' go any- where in de worl' to gamble then, an' yo' gin to gamble, an' whenevah yo' starts to gamblin', dey tell me de boys jes' wants tuh leave right then. The boys then, who yo' be's gamblin' with, jes' wants tuh quit becus' yore luck is on.
Entry 602
In case someone go to the penitent'ry, you goes to the four corners of the road [crossroad] and you dig up a little of that dirt from those four corners of the road, and you bring that home and you put a little sugar and a little of that steel [dust?] - or that white powder - they call it - let me see now, they call it -
(First you put in white sugar?)
Yes.
(And then what else?)
Pulverized white saltpeter. Well, you take all dat and you put it in a little bottle. Like you take a little piece of soft flannel, you tie it in a little bundle and the party what is in trouble, you have their name on a piece of paper in that, and you roll it to the - the day the case come up, you roll it nine days before the case come up and the day the case come up, you roll it seven times early in the morning.
(How do you mean roll it seven times?)
You got it in a little ball - you know, just take a little ball like that and you just roll it like that; roll it towards you, like that.
(Oh, it's a little ball and you roll it over seven times.)
Yes, seven times. And then when you rolls it, you rolls it more like this to you.
(You roll it to you?)
Yeah, so you can get discharged. (I see. And what do you do the nine days before the trial - what do you do with that ball?) Well, you just - you just handles it and moves it around and rolls it from one corner to the other, and be wishing from St. Agnes for them to come back home - put a good-luck light [candle].
(I see.)
And then you see, a rock I got - if a person got a hard case. See that? There's two rocks. I got a hard case to get discharged in court. Now, you see that?
(There are two rocks.)
There are the two rocks. Now you see, if you want to know whether you get discharged of this dangerous crime. Well, all I got to do - say to you, "Father, Son and Holy Ghost, hand me one of them rocks." See, keep your mind on - keep your mind on your business. "Hand me one of them rocks." Now, which one would you hand me? Which rock would you -
(You mean, pick up one of those?) [I must have hesitated!]
Pick it up, it won't harm you, any one you want. Which one would you hand me? (All right - this one.) [I must have picked it up despite germs - probably the only time I ever touched anything.] You'd get clear - you'd get cleared - get cleared of your case.
(Because of that white rock?)
It's a clear rock. (A clear rock, I see. Now, someone must pick up one of those rocks for you, or you yourself pick it up?) No, I don't pick it up. If you are in trouble and you want to know whether you will get discharged out of this trouble.
(Oh, I see - if I was in trouble and I would come to you?)
Yeah, and you come to me and say, "Will I get discharged?" I say, "Well, in the Name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost, '' say 'pick meup one of them rocks and put it in my right hand." You pick up one and put it in my right hand and whilst you pick up that one, say, "No, you ain't going to be discharged, '' and if you pick up that one, "You going to be discharged." (I see. Now, one of these rocks is white like crystal and this is reddish brown - a dark rock. I see.) Yes. And then - now, watch. If this rock is there and then you come and say, "I wants to know the party what killed such-and-such a one. I'd like to know is it true that it is a relation of mine, or who - or is it a outsider - whether it is any relation of mine." Just take it like that - you want to know if it's an outsider. Look - I say, "Now, hand me that rock." You hand me that rock.
(All right - then I pick up this black rock?)
Yes.
(All right.)
Well, you see this light across it there?
(Oh, yes.)
Well, that's your relation - they going to get out and if you hand it to me this way, "They'll get discharged. But if you hand it to me in any way, like that - see what I mean - my hand like that - say, "No, no chance." (Now, let me put that rock down there again. Now, if it's like this - this rock is a little different - this is the big end and this is the small end - it makes a difference with that. end toward you?) Yes sir.
(Now, if I'd hand it to you this way - this way, then what would it be?)
If you hand it to me in this way, then there'd wouldn't be no chance of them getting out of trouble 'cause they got a heavy load on their back.
(Oh, a heavy load on their back. And suppose I handed it to you like this?)
Like this - it would be straightened but not great - you'd have a little trouble but not too much. If you hand right straight to me like this - straight out to me, well, there's no chance of coming out.
(I see. Well, what would happen with this little end to you?)
[I may have touched the rock once but I certainly did not play with it. These latter manipulations are surely by pointing.] You sure of - gittin' out of trouble.
(I see.)
Gittin' clear.
(I see - if I hand it to you with that large end, that means a heavy load.)
Yeah, that's it - a heavy load - that's trouble on 'em.
(I see.)
And then again, if somebody get arrested and you say, "Well, I got to go to court Monday. Do you reckon I'll get discharged Monday?" You know, they ast you, "Do you reckon I'll get discharged Monday, I've got to go to court Monday?" I'll say, "Well, let me see." Well, I'll take these two rocks again and if you hand me that light one, you'll get discharged.
(I see.)
Anything -
(And if I handed you the dark one, well you wouldn't get discharged?)
You wouldn't get discharged. (I see. You only use three rocks then - two for one thing and just one for the other?) That's all. You can use these three rocks for the - for the world [for any- thing in the world].
(Well, how would you do that?)
You could use 'em for anything - and I'll throw 'em around like this [demonstrates].
(You mix those three rocks up with your hand like that.)
If somebody come to see me that they don't know [what he is doing] - what any concern of his - don't know what my mind is.
(I see.)
Now, I'll say [demonstrates].
(You put those three rocks down.)
I'll say, "Hand me these - hand me one at a time In the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost." Well, you'll either hand me either one. (You say, "Hand me one of these - one at a time, In the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?") Yes sir. Well, whatever one they pick up and hand me, I look and put that down - I remember what that's for - and you hand me another one and I say, "Well, you are going to hand a little trouble - a relation of yours going to get in a little trouble." See, that's a blood kin to you, that's a relation of yours.
(Because it's a reddish rock?)
Yeah, but you say, "Well, will he get discharged?" [I say] "Well, hand me one and see if will he get discharged." [You hand me one and I say] "Yeah, he'll get discharged." (I see, I see. Now, who taught you that way of using these three rocks - did you learn that from someone?) In my mind.
(Oh, that - that a - )
That the spirit of my mind.
(I see - the spirit of your mind just told you how to do this?)
Yes, sir. And then again. I'll show you in another way. You hand me a cup of water and a glass of water - little plain cup that nobody uses - a cup of water and a glass of water. You set that there and you say, "Well, I come to see whether my son will get out of trouble or will I get out of trouble." Ah say, "All right. In the Name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost." Say, "Hand me one of those utensils with the water in it." Well, you hand me the cup, see.
(I hand you the cup.)
You hand me the cup and I say, "No, no chance of him getting out." [Why? Because], when [you] travel cross water you troubled. Well, hand me the glass of water. [I hand him the glass of water.] See all the way through - you can see all the way through the glass and you can't see through a cup. (Oh, I see. If I hand you the cup, you can get in trouble because you can't see through it at all; but if I hand you the glass, it's good, you get out of trouble because you can see through a glass.) Exactly. (I see, I see. You can use the rock because you don't want - don't care to use the cards.) Yes.
(About those cards?)
There are 52 cards in a deck.
(Yes.)
Well, clubs is drinks and noise and coming of plenty people. Spades is dis- appointments, sad dissension in your family.
(Sad dissension in your family.)
Yeah - spades. And hearts is love. And diamonds is money. (And how would you run those - I mean how could you tell that those things would happen to you?) Well - you got a deck of cards with you?
(No - just pretend that you got a deck of cards.)
[Several times I was asked for a deck of cards by an informant. I did not carry a deck because I did not want it found on me in case I was arrested.] Well now, there's a spade, there's a club and here's a heart and here's a diamond. Well, now what you want to know? What you say you want me to tell you? (Well, now suppose I'm in trouble and come to you - have you read the cards for me.) Well, you hand me one of the cards out of the deck.
(Well, I'll hand you this diamond - here.)
Uh huh - you going to get out of trouble but you got to pay plenty money.
(I see. All right - now, suppose I hand you that spade.)
No chance for good.
(No chance for good. Now, I'll hand you this club.)
The club. They going to be slow to speak against you, but if the nine of clubs is with - if you pull it out of the top and it turns up, you is overcome. (I see - if it happens to be the nine of clubs. I see. What would it be if I gave you the heart?) The hearts is love - friendship - everybody likes you - everybody's on your side.
(I don't have to worry.)
Don't have to worry about nothing.
(I see.)
Entry 603
Now, ah had dat done tuh me. Now, ah'll tell yo' de truth. In Alexan- dria, Virginia, mah privates used to ache when mah wife would go off or somepin lak dat - be off any length of time. An' ah couldn't even bothah wit nobody but her, an' ah couldn't do so much tuh her. So, we separated an' dey jis' went tuh swellin' up on me down dere. Ah called de doctah an' de doctah ast me did ah evah had a cramps or anythin' lak dat. Ah tole him, "No suh." So he give me a suscription [prescription] for a suspensor bag [suspensory] an' some medicine. An' jis' [it] ordinarily leave, yo' know - it didn't las long. So, ah wus on mah way tuh hunt mah wife - yo' know, ah had tuh go fin her. She wus in South Ca'lina down heah an' ah wus in Marylan'. So ah stop in Virginia an' someone tole me 'bout a ole woman named Stu-art ovah on de Canal in Alexandria - it's right dere [near] Washington. So, ah went ovah tuh see her - ole woman. Ah reckon she wus roun' 75 or 80 yeahs ole. She say, "Come in, son, ah know why yo' come." Say, "Sit down." An' she took a rock an' put it in mah han' jis' lak dat, an' say, "Yo' shet it tight an' think about yore trouble an' make some wishes." Ah think 'bout mah trouble an' take it out. Ah've nevah seen a rock look lak dat. An' she took it off an' she went tuh readin' dis rock.
(What color was the rock she put in your hand?)
"Bout a dove colored rock.
(Did it change while it was in your hand?)
Naw suh, it didn't change. She say, "Yo's a long way from home." Ah say, "Yes'm. She say, "Ah'm goin' stop yo' heah, now [ambiguous]. An' she say, "Yore mothah's uneasy 'bout chew." ' Say, "Dere she is - can't yo' see her? She got a big white apern [apron] on." Ah couldn't see nuthin' [on the stone]. Say, "Can't yo' see her dere?" Say, "Yo' got somebody daid in yore family?" Say, "Yes'm, mah sistah wus." Say, "Can't yo' see her dere?" Say, "She dressed all in white." Den she come down heah to de bottom of de rock an' she say, "Think now - yo' evah seen anythin' lak dat befo' in yore life?" Ah say, "No-mam." She say, "Think." Ah say, "No'm, ah can't think." "A ole rock," she say, "dat's yore wife pussy." She say, "Didn't she play deceitful wit chew when yo' git ready tuh have sexual interco'se with her? She had tuh go out in anothah room or somepin lak dat?" Says, "Well, she dressed herself fo' yuh" - she didn't tell whut she dressed it wit but she dressed her- self wit somepin - an' she say, "Yore dragged in dat while yo' wus havin' her." An' she say, "She didn't intend tuh kill yo' but in othah words, her intention wus fo' yo' tuh follow wit her wherevah she go. She's a woman wants tuh have her way." Say, "But it would event'ly [eventually] killed yo' if yo' have nevah gone back to her an' hadn't seen me. She say, "Ah'll take yore case fo' $41.50." An' ah paid her whut ah had an' she tole me, say, "Now, yo' may have tuh go tuh Baltimore" - yo' might know it - say, "Yo' go tuh Washington tuh de ole Dutch Center Market an' yo' git chew a package of mayapple root. [I interviewed a Washington root seller, also one in Mobile - see Root seller in Index.] Yo' boil it down - put it in a quart of watah an' boil it down to a pint" [diminishing amount magic - opposite of increasing amount]. An' said, "Yo' take a" - think she said it wus a tablespoonful de first night. She said, "De next night yo' git chew a package of pure apple vinegar - boil a quart of pure apple vinegar an' a package of Sensation tubacca."
(Sensation tobacco - what is that, smoking or chewing?)
Well, yo' kin chew or either smoke it. An' say, "Yo' shave yore hair off easy on yore han'." Say, "Make a syrup out dat. [You have] a syrup out dis Sensation tobacca an' de vinegar. Put it [the two syrups] togethah an' boil it an' make a syrup an' see, yo' 'noint chure haid good wit it - all yore privates an' ever'thing wit it." An' say, "De next night, see, yo' git yo' a bottle of sweet oil an' yo' drink ever' bit of it." Ah did jes' lak she said. So one day, 'bout de last day dem pains, de pains got on top me an' ah went tuh hollerin' upstairs. Mah cousin came up an' she say, "Whut's de mattah?" When she came upstairs ah wus down - ah had de foot of de bed jes' lak dis - she say, "Whut's de mattah?"
(Hanging onto the bed.)
Hangin' on de bed jes' lak dat - wit de suspensor bag on me.
(What kind of a bag on?)
Had on de suspensor bag - ah still had on dat suspensor bag de doctah had give me in Baltimore.
(What's that?)
Dat's tuh hol' dem balls up - dat's a truss, dey call it. So ah look roun' after her lak dat an' ah said, "Dat woman tole me dat mah haid wus damn big an' all - dat ah couldn't hear but ah'd feel somepin dere - somepin dere - an' maybe ah ain't feelin' it now." She laughed an' says, "Ef yo' don' treat dese wimmin right, dey'll kill yo'." So she rushed dis one man next do' to dis wumman cross de Canal dat had give me dat suscription tuh use an' tole her whut a fix ah wus in an' he said she laughed at him when he got dere an' tole him, "He'd be all right when yo' go back." An' sho' 'nuff when he came back ah wus all right. An' de next day ah went tuh work at de shop fo' five hours, an' ah throw 'way dat suspensor bag or dem trusses an' ah nevah had dem pains any mo' since. Naw suh. An' jes' mah ordinary nature came back to me an' ah could go wit any woman ah wanted, an' befo' ah could hardly rear it up an' anothah woman seem jes' lak a man. Dat de truth.
(What kind of a iob did you have with the Southern Railroad - firing?)
Firelighter in de roun'house.
(Oh, you were lighting the fires in the engines.)
In de engines.
Entry 604
Yo' kin take a sifter an' scissors an' anybody taken anything from yo', steal money or any sech that - yo' kin take dat sifter an' talk to it an' set dat sifter up on de scissors an' it'll turn; it won't turn as long as yo' didn't call de right name, but soon as yo' call de right name de sifter turns, de name dat dey done steal it from yo'. (Now here are the scissors - you put them point up? Then you turn the sifter upside down over it?) Dat's it.
Entry 605
Whut chew could do to pertect yo'self against it? Well, yo' kin take yo' a silver dime an' yo' kin take dat dime and put a hole in it. Yo' wear it round yore waist or yo' wrist or yore laig - any place you wanta or either round yore neck. Ah guess yo've seen dem wit dimes round dere necks hanging down. Well, whenever dat dime turns black - a dime is silver - when it begin to turn black, dey say dey trying to harm yo', see. But dey can't git up to yo' long as yo' wear dat piece of money - that silver dime. Well, yo' kin tell if they trying to throw at chew or do anything by that dime turning black.
Entry 606
Ah've heerd tell, jes' lak if yore laig swell or anything an' yo' [want to] find out yore poisoned, yo' take a silver dime an' band[age] it round yore laid, around dis swollen place, an' if there's anything did to yo' in that laig, why it will change de color of de dime, it will turn black. Well, if it's not, why it's jest natch'ly a swelling, de dime won't change color.
The account presents hearsay about a diagnostic claim; no cause of swelling or diagnostic validity is established.
Entry 607
I was talking to a woman the other morning. She was wearing a silver bracelet. She has been wearing it for ten years. If any poison is laid for her, it will go in that bracelet and turn it black. They will wear a dime on the ankle and if they are poison it will turn black.
Entry 608
Wal, ah tole him [Edward, my contact man] ah wus poison one time. An' ah had moved in a house an' de woman had dressed de hat fo' me 'cause she didn't Want to move out of de house, an' mah han's got so till ah couldn't use 'em - mah fingers, yo' know, jes' lak a person have poison. An' ah wus in jes' sech a bad fix - two doctors wus tendin' me. Ah wus jes' about - ah thought ah wus goin' die. So a gentleman recommend me to anothah man, but he went an' got dis man an' bring him to me. An' dis man put a silver dime in mah mouth, an' ah kept it in dere fifteen minutes an' dat dime done turn black. Den he took de dime after it turn black an' put it in a black fryin' pan an' he boiled dat dime in dat fryin' pan fifteen minutes. An' when he boiled it fifteen minutes, he took de watah dat boil in de dime an' gi' me a tablespoonsful of it fo' thirty minutes. An' in twenty-fo' hours ah felt as good as ah feel right now. An' two doctors give me up.
(You say this woman had fixed you in a hat?)
Dressed me in a hat. Ah had done took de hat down an' shaken it - sweepin' yo' know, de house out, an' didn't know dat de hat was dressed fo' me.
Entry 609
Take a silver dime an' place it in yore mouth undah yore tongue at night an' sleep with it undah yore tongue durin' de night, an' in de mawnin' when yo' wake up it will be black as yore coat [see Coat, my black, in Index] - den yo know yore hurt.
Entry 610
Put it round yore leg - that's a good way to tell when yo' poisoned or tricked or witchcrafted any way. Either yo' swallow it or wear it round yore ankle, or either yo' kin hold it in yore mouth. If yo' hold it in yore mouth ten minutes an' yo' take it out, it be black like [that] little thing here [switchbox for my Telediphone.]
(Did you say you swallow it?)
Yo' swallow it.
(How do you swallow it?)
Well, yo' jest swallow it jes' like yo' do bread or anything - it'll remain in yo' body.
(You don't swallow the whole dime though?)
Yo' swallow the whole dime.
(You mean the whole piece or do you scrape ft off?)
Yo' swallows the dime - the whole dime, an' it will remain in yore body some- times 'leven days [see No. 568], but yo' have to watch yo'self an' see when it appears, an' if it black, why yo' know then there is something wrong.
Entry 611
My mother she taken with a pain in the bottom of her foot an' we thought she had rheumatism - that's been around about five years ago [1931] - an' it continued to get worser an' the foot swoll up. An' she had the doctor an' the doctor kept dostin' [dosing] her with medicine an' she didn't get any better an' at last he told her, "Don't know whut in the world's the matter with your foot." So there was a man here by [staying with] a lady he's fixin' [doctoring] - he's suppose to be one of these root doctors or somepin an' we taken her down there to her house an' he looked at her an' examined her an' said, "You're sick - somepin that choo've walked over." So he told her to take three dimes, to put a quart of water on 'em an' boil it an' see if that foot don't turn black [when bathed in this water]. An' she did that an' sure enough it did, an' then he made her some kin'a grease looked like it was made out of mud. I don't know whut - he didn't tell us whut he put in it, but it black like that, an' he greased that foot with that an' he made a tea out of parsley an' give it to her three time a day - one of these wineglass full. She did that for four weeks but after she taken that these pains begin dyin'.
Entry 612
I know a lady in Baltimore, she was taken to the asylum. She was hurt with some kind of white stuff. Someone next door throwed it in her hair. She Was crazy. A man told us he could cure her. The day she was to be taken away he came to see her. He put a Bible under her head and told us to wash her head with tobacco and we did so. Before he did that he taken a glass of milk, he taken a silver ring off of his finger and let it stood in this milk, and give it to her to drink. It [milk left in glass after the drink] didn't turn black, so he said she wasn't hurt inside. He said let her go on to the asylum and he guaranteed in four weeks time she'll be out. So we did. He give me a [dressed] handkerchief, a brand-new one. He told me don't let my hands touch it, carry it to the asylum and give it to her to wipe her face. And I did. I could tell a diff'rence in her before I left. In four weeks time she was at home.
Entry 613
I know when mah sister wus a-goin' - someone fix her up by her hat an mah mother - there's a ole witchcraft - of course, you know, jis' like mah father didn't believe in it an' she didn't allow such things at de house. So they tol' mah mother to take some needles - two needles, an' two broomstraws, an' two quartahs whut de lady wid de stars aroun', an' take a pot of boilin' watah an' put it in; an' if anybody, yo' know, did anything to you, those things will go togethah, you know, an' dance; if not [fixed or hurt], it won't. So she tried it. But sure enough it wus true. Then she take an' pour that off in a - I think de watah, it made a tea, you know, had to drink de tea. That's to kill it, de poison. [Wilmington, N. Car., (221), 210:5; at Rocky Point, N. Car.,1933.]
Entry 614
Then, when you get you two pieces of money - you understand me? If you can't read cards - well, I generally tell it with cards. I read cards - find out practically anything that I want to know. But if you can't read cards, you wants to get you two old pieces of money and put 'em in a pan and put 'em on and let the water come to a boil, and if dat money will hop about and throw the water at chew when dat water boil, you know that someone have put a trick on you. Now, what you wanta do - you wanta save dat water dat you boil this silver in and take three swallows a day for nine mornings. Well, you do that for nine mornings and you wanta to go [to] the cemetery and get three pinches of dirt each day for nine mornings, and bring that dirt and place that dirt into an old sock from de party who harmed you, if you possibly can, or either get a sock from dat house, if you can. Well, if you don't get a sock from dat house, you Wants to go by dere with dat dirt and sprinkle it across the door so he may be able to cross it. That'll take care of him.
(That'll take off the spell?)
Take the spell away. [Norfolk, Va., (466), 460: l; by Doctor Bowes.]
Entry 615
Like sometimes you have a sore on your foot and it's hard to cure up, or you feet swells, give you a lot of trouble and painful. Then you take this bluestone...you boil this silver money in this water and if it jingles [to tell whether you have been conjuredl why then you mix this bluestone in that and then mix this sulphur. You take silver-water like that, they call it, then sulphur - you mix this sulphur with it and make a paste like, or you kin jest use it to soak your feet in and then bake 'em in de fire. You soak 'em for nine days or nine nights, then bake your feet by the open fire. You see, from the heat, and that draws out, they say, the poison. It's something like, they say, they dressed somepin they stepped on or dressed your shoes or dressed your stockings. And when that poison comes out it'll leave little white speck like places in your flesh. That's like if somepin you've powdered they've brushed on you or you've stepped over.
Entry 616
The pins and needles - well, that's when someone hurts yeh and you're trying to turn it back on them. You buy a new paper of needles and a new paper of pins. And you take nine needles and nine pins, and you put on a quart of water, and you put a fifty cents or a dollar or a dime - any silver piece of money in there - and then let it come to a boil. And if you're hurt, why this money will turn over. Well then, if the water boil, it'll turn with the boiling water. You do that when the moon's on the last quarter or right on the full moon as the moon's going away. That's when you boil this money, they say. And that tells whether you're hurt. This money'll boil and turn over, just continue to turn over and just rattle. And then you drop these needles and pins in there and make your wish, you see, that whatsomever they do to you may return back on the ones that put it on you., See? Well then, after it boiling, you boil it down. You take a quart, say for a instant [instance], you boil it to a half a pint. Then you make this same wish again. And you go on back down then until it gets to a half a pint. You never boil it clean completely away. You drink this water, you see, when you take this spell off. And then you take those needles and pins and put them in something that you doesn't care for, something about your person, put 'em in paper or, if you found you anything around there where it's been put down, why you put all this together and throw that in running Water between nine and twelve o'clock, anytime after sunset. And make your wish just whatever way that chew goin'. (While wishing, stand facing the direction that you will take after the article has been thrown into the river.) You see, you can turn around [backwards] on your way [to the river]. Don't never turn around [after reaching the river]. Be in the position that chew goin' when you throw them away. And never look back. Well, you see, if you do it right on the full moon, see, then by the time it changes and goes completely away, see, why this spell is off of you; then, see, and those needles and pins, they've done and washed on away.
Entry 617
Ah knew a lady one time, her foot gave her trouble - it just busted out in little water blisters and the doctor's medicine you put it on there and it almost run the lady crazy. And so ah chanced to be around there. So I asked the lady, I said, "Well, I've did everything I can," I said, "and we have to take the doctor's medicine off," ah said, "and [use] clear salt water." She seemed to have so much fever. Ah said, "I bathes it [with] hot salted water." And it seemed like that do her some good. "Well, '' she [third woman] says, "Well, ah tell you what to do,"' says, "I'm afraid to tell her but I'll tell you, '' says, "seein' as you," was a nurse." And I was a nurse in the home at that time. [She] says, "Why you take a piece of silver money, ' says, "and you put on a pint of water now and boil it down to a half a pint, says, "and then, if that money turns over and jingles very much," she says, "why you boil it again. You put it in a tin-cup, you know, where it could [can] boil quick, and then you boils it down to just about two tablespoonsful." And then we took sulphur and made a paste - sulphur in that water and made a paste and I went in and took a black hen's feather - she [third woman] told me to ketch a black hen's feather and pull one outen her tail. And I went and caught a black hen and pulled a feather outen her tail and I put that paste over her foot, and that's what cured the lady's foot. [My informant was not given any cure by a third woman or the patient; she is trying to hide from me that she is a healer.] She said that she was hurt in it - well now, she said that a lady showed a piece of false hair and she remembered that piece of false hair fell on her foot. And so after I told her how her foot got better - she got so she could walk den - ah told her what ah did. Then she went and seed a hoodoo doctor and they told her it was the dust from out the piece of false hair - it had poisoned her foot.
(False hair?)
Yes.
(Well, did someone drop this false hair to hurt it or?)
Yes, the lady was mad with her over another man, and they were wearing false hair then and it was the style of wearing the hair in a great big knot, and they'd buy this false hair, you know, to work in with the other hair, you know. Course, both the ladies had good hair, but see they were just wearing that for the style - see, made the style of the hair. And so she was showing her - that's the onliest way that she could get to her, you see, and she went to the lady's home, you see, and was showing her and this piece of hair dropped and fell on her foot, you see. See, she had it dressed especially for it, and I guess, prob'bly, the lady must have had on a house shoe or something like that, or eitherwise if she didn't, you see that dust just went right on through her hose - it doesn't take much dust you see to go through your shoes. And so that's what cured her - that sulphur and silver water [see No. 616].
(That caused the swollen foot and she went to the doctor for those blisters?)
Yes, those blisters.
(She went to the doctor?)
Went to the doctor and he gave her medicine and salve to put on there and they Was just almost running her crazy - wouldn't do her any good. They say doctor's medicine don't do anything like that no good, you know, and you'd have to take that off in hot salt water. It would ease her more and it just made the pain - it didn't pain her when that doctor's medicine wasn't on there, but now say you'd put the doctor's medicine on there, it would be painful, and this stuff just continued to spread. She had a very neat foot - she wore a number four shoe and she weighed around about 165 pounds - nice large legs - real good shape she was. And after that her foot got so that she couldn't wear that small shoe - had a pair of shoes there she never could wear - she had to get rid of them - they were black paten leather with the alligator inlaid - she couldn't wear those shoes any place any more. They said it was because, you see, that goofer dust powder was on 'em - they were dressed.
Entry 618
In the beginning of it - she was a woman she loved long hair and it was a man setting there and she was combing her hair. And he said, "Hattie, ah tell you how you to do to make yore hair grow." And she said, "Well, tell me." He say, "Well, when you git through combing yore hair tonight, '' says, "leave it out there on de table and when de wind blows [it] away, finally, [he said] dirt would [will] settle on it and dat hair begin to take root, and when it takes root chure hair will grow." Well, she did it as he told her, and fin'lly she begin tuh git to de place she couldn't stay home - night neither day until she got to the place where she did not pay her children no mind. And she got tuh tellin' some man [root doctor] about it. Co'se he knowed these things and he told her, says, "Well, he jes' got chure hair buried," and he said, "if you give me" - ah don't know how much de money was - but anyways she paid him something. But he had something - about fifty cents or twenty-five cents in one these old-fashioned glasses they call tumblers - got a rocking bottom to it. Well, he put the money in that glass and placed about a handful of water in it and he went up to [and then under] this house and every time he would move, the silver [would move] in the glass. He moved until he found it and when he found it, it was buried in a little box in the shape of a coffin. And what he did with that, now ah can't tell. Ah was a chile but ah kin remember them things. [I failed to ask for obvious details here, the action being based upon the boiling-silver rites in this margin-title. When the proper time arrived the Water was poured from the tumbler and the tumbler shaken - the jingling silver publicly announced a discovery.]
(How long ago was that time - thirty years?)
Been longer than that - been about thirty-five years.
(Where did that happen, here in Alabama?)
Over in Louisiana.
(What part of Louisiana?)
Delta, Louisiana.
Entry 619
[A holy candle] that the Cath'lics use.
(Get a holy candle?)
Yes. And the only way you kin git them is you go to some publishing house, you know, like where they makes those books, you know, Testaments and Bibles and things like that and Sunday school stuff. Well, that's whare you buy those candles - what they call de Christian Public House - Publishing House, where you buy those at.
(What do they call those candles?)
Holy candles. And 'tis a big white candle that is not no more larger 'en that but it is round like that.
(About this round?)
Yeah, and it looked more like stone - it don't look like wax, it look like it was stone.
(It's a short candle about that big?)
Yes. That's the only candle.
(Now, what would he do with that - will you tell me that again?)
Well, that has to be done at the ninth hour and you have to say good things because the candle supposed to be a holy candle; and whatsomever you want, you ask in the Name of the Lord - say good things. (Well now, you said something about a vision a moment ago - I didn't quite get all of that.) Well, you see, that candle will give that smoke.
(It smokes.)
And you watches de smoke, you see, and that's whare you'll see the things in the smoke.
(Oh, you see these things in the smoke.)
Really in the smoke - really and truly, you certainly will.
(Now, just what would a person burn this candle for?)
Now, I'll make - I will say, "Well, I certainly does want me some money; ah played a number today and ah want de cash." Well, inside of dat nine days I'm gon'a ketch dat number. If I'm gon'a ketch it, I'm gon'a see it in de smoke - I will see that number in the smoke. I say, "I wants to see such and such a man." Well, in that smoke ah could see his vision. Whatsomever you want, you'll see. And you ask de Lord, if you wanted to see if it's gon'a come true. If it's gon'a come true, you compelled to see it in that smoke. Yes, but if the smoke goes sudden, it's tough luck for yuh. If dat smoke comes from dat candle and whirls and whirls, go down to the floor, 'tis death in the family, or there's someone very near to yuh [going to die]. But if de smoke goes straight up, you just set there just like this - like this the candle - you sit right there and watch that smoke and you'll see.
(And you'll see these things. I see.)
Entry 620
If a person had did yo' any harm - jes' say fo' an instan' if they did joo harm an' yo'd go to someone to do yo' good. Well dey call dis [thing] to a lady sometime - a snakeshed don't chew know - an' ast this thing - this insect whut - if dey s anybody did anything to yo, dey want it to go to yo', right direct to yo', an' point out de places [where you are hurt] yo' know or go to de places don't yo' see. Yo' didn't ask about a snake but ah can't help speaking about it. [See margin-title Madam Helen for her snake.]
(All right.) [Miss Young's snake (No. 242) tells you what's wrong.]
[He says a doctor can use any kind of animal, even a stuffed snakeshed on a timid woman instead of a live snake, which he now describes:] Well, de snake he'll go an' wind around yo', don't chew know - he'll start around at chure feet an' stop to where dis stuff is stopped in yo' dere, don't chew know. [Informant continues with turtle:] Well, de same way with the turtle, he'll point his direction to yo' where it is - he'll come to yo' an' mark time with yo' - make lak dat wit his head - be a foot, one time - yore neck, two time - lak dat. [If the turtle, (tortoise - terrestrial turtle) nods or wags or moves his head "one time," you are hurt in a foot; if 'two time, ' in your neck - et cetera.] Don't chew know. An' dat's whut dey are good fo'.
(You mean these hoodoo people carry those things?)
Yes sir.
Entry 621
I was in Norfolk, Virginia, an' a fellah was tricked by a girl with a fork, you know, while eatin'. I knew him, we worked together - we worked at the cap factory. An' he couldn't stay away from there [the girl's house] an' he couidn't stay with his wife. She [this girl] had him tricked. See, they'd been goin' together an' goin' together an' goin' together, but he got married on her. See, that's why she thought she'd do such a thing. An' he went to ever'body he knew [for advice] an' so he was told to go to a root worker an' ever'bodies don't like to go to a root worker, so he didn't jis' wan'a go. An' so he got so bad off an' his wife was goin' leave him so he jes' went on to a root worker. An' so dis place he went, she told him to take some snuff an' vinegar an' take this snuff - he soaked it in vinegar - put it under his girl's nose at night. An' she say if this woman wakes up, she hasn't got him fix - he jis' does his own ideas goin' there [he went there voluntarily]; an' if she don't wake up, he know she git somepin wrong [that he had been fixed]. So he did that. [She didn't wake up when the snuff was held under her nose.] An' whosomever he went to told him to bring it back to them [if the girl didn't wake up]. An' after he did [bring the snuff back] she kept it for three days an' nights. What she did, why he don't know, an' I don't know either. But she gave it back to him an' she told him to take it back [on his person] to this woman house ever' day he went there. An' ever' day he carried this snuff back there, she was goin' back an' forth to the store, back an' forth to the store. An' so he kept worryin' her an' kept worryin' her until she came clean with it. An' she told him what she had done. He didn't tell us exactly what she say she did to him, but she had tricked him in his food. She left Virginia.
Entry 622
Jes' lak if a person steal somepin from yo' an' yo' wanta find out who did it, yo' jes' take a cup an' po' some coffee in it an' yo' blows yore breath in it three times, and put some snuff in it an' po' de coffee out. Den turns de cup down till it gits dry an' whensomevah hit git dry, de picture of who stole it will be in de cup - regardless tuh who it 'tis, it be in de cup. An' de place dat dey at - if dey standin' by a tree or by a stump or a ditch or offa de road [you will see the person there]; or again, if dey daid yo' kin see dey coffin.
Entry 623
Had a old lady here - she's dead now - named of - used to live out chere in Moccasin Bottom, named Caroline Young, and ah never knowed how she did it.
(Explain that to me again, now.)
She would take the grounds and put in the cup - coffee grounds I guess it was, they look like coffee grounds, and then put it into the grounds out of the cup in the saucer. Then she would pour coffee in the cup, and pour that coffee out of the cup into the saucer. [I believe Caroline used not coffee grounds but snuff, as in the preceding rite.] Well, when she would do that then, you would see pitchures in the saucer, see. And then natch'ly if you would see a person's picture in that saucer that you knows - but you know, you wouldn't know it [was] him. But she would tell you, say, "Well, do you know this picture." And you say, "Well, sure I know that picture." 'Well, this is the one have your stuff."
[The seeker traps himself!]
(That stolen stuff.) [Vicksburg, Miss., (714), 983:6.] [See my interview with Madam Griffin (Griffith) for a reader of snuff.]
Entry 624
She told me that her husband was running with a woman and she said that it was revealed in her to whup his tracks - jis' take a stick like a whup. See, jis' like he track down a plow row, see plowed-up land, and jis' whup his track and say, "Go, go, go." And she declares dat dis man moved shortly. Says he come right by her doah and said, "I's leavin' this plantation," said, "I ain't gon'a stay here no longah."
(Who revealed this to her?)
She said it was God.