Browse:SPIRITS (Volume 1, entries 16–544)/Part 7
SPIRITS
Volume 1, entries 16–544. Entries listed under this heading in the source volume.
Entries
Entry 496
They tell me that they take a bottle and pee in it and put that bottle up the chimley and when the witch comes in and comes down the chimley she'll go right in that bottle. Then cork it right up and that holds her until you find out who she is. [Wilmington, N. Car., (181),?]
Entry 497
Yo' takes dis chamber lye an' yo' puts it in somepin an' stops it up an' let it stay fo' nine days, an' ev'ry mawnin' dis witch will come to yo' to borrah somepin. Slong [so long] as yo' keep dat dere, don' nevah lend 'er anythin', an' if yo' do not lend 'er anythin', well, den she'll bust. But if yo' jes' keep dat den she'll bust. But if yo' - she'll come to yo' fo' nine mawnin's an' if yo lend 'er somethin' ev'ry time she come to yo, den she kin git ovah it. But if yo' don't lend 'er anythin', why it's nuthin' she kin do.
(Whose water do you put in that bottle?)
Yo' put de witch's watah - oh! yo' put chure watah in de bottle - yo' know, yore chamber lye, yo' put hit in de bottle.
(You have this bottle by your bed when you sleep at night?)
Yes sir, an' yo' turn two fo'ks up - yo' take a fo'k an' a knife an' yo' stick de knife in de fo'k [making a cross] an' lay it undah yore pillah, an' den if she starts ridin' yo' yo'll see her, yo'll wake an' she'll appear tuh yo'. (You use both the fork an' the knife, an' this bottle of chamber lye - all together?) No sir, yo' leave de chamber lye yo' put hit in de bottle de next morning, after yo' see this witch.
(Oh, you have to see her that night.)
You will see her if yo' put dat fo'k dere.
Entry 498
My mother was rode by a witch. I used to sleep in the next room from her. When a witch rides you you can't talk, you holler, you just make a b-o-o-m sound. Then you know something is wrong. My mother started to making that fuss and I called and asked her what was the matter with her. And she said a witch was riding her. So I told her the next time a witch got after her I was going to catch whoever it was. They say you take a sifter, a bottle of water and a broom. You put it down at the bottom of the [door] steps. The witch has to count all those holes in the sifter, all those straws in the broom, and if day- break catches him he goes in the bottle of water and you stop him up, and you find out who was riding you. The person will come to you and beg you to turn them out of that bottle.
Entry 499
Use de straw from a broom for a hag. Take de straws from de broom an' take de broom an' lie it down side de bed, an' de nex' mawnin' dere will be somepin down dere side de bed. People say it be's de hag, but say dat de firs' pusson dat came to your house to borrah somepin from yo', don' loan it to 'em, say dat'll be de same pusson dat rode joo.
Entry 500
Jes' lak if a hag be ridin' yo' ev'ry night - ev'ry night yo' go to bed an' a hag ride yo', jes' take de broom an' sleep wit de broom 'cross yore foot ev'ry night an' dat'll keep de hag away.
Entry 501
Dey only use a broom in case [what] dey call de hag or some kind of a witchcraft rides yo' at night. Dey takes an' put it 'cross de do' an' - sprinkle lot'a salt on de flo' yo' know an' den take an' put it cross de do'. Dat stops dem from comin' in.
Entry 502
In Norfolk city [not the county], there was an old witch that used to go around riding people. So one day an old woman came around and told them, "I can do something so they won't come in. You take straws from the broom you sweep with and lay them all a-way across the door." They mustn't come together like that but cross like that [demonstrates].
(One straw overlapping the other.)
"And if a witch comes to that door, she can't come in. She can't cross the straws because a broom sweeps out." [New York Citv. (4), Ed.: from Norfolk, Va.]
Entry 503
Take nine straws, broomstraws, an' yo' put 'em down - yo' kinda pound 'em an' yo' put 'em down. Put nine to de haid an' nine middleways an' nine to de foot on de flo'. Then yo' put nine on de middleways an' den put de whole straw on de back an' a bottle right down by dem nine straws. When de hag git on yo' he got'a start tuh countin' dem straws, he count dem straws - he count right dere an' yo' ketch him, ketch him in dat bottle.
(What does he look like, then?)
Says he look lak a jelly of blood - jes' lak a lump of jelly.
(Now, about those straws - how many straws do you put on the bed?)
Put nine each ways - nine on de flo', nine up de next de post an' tuh de back.
(Well, where do you put the three nines now?)
From de straw broom jes' git de straw an' put nine up dere; jes' lak yo' plantin' - nine dere, nine heah an' nine dere.
(Where do you put the first nine?)
On de flo'.
(Where do you put the second nine?)
On de bed.
(Where do you put the third nine?)
On de back - dat's de broom, de whole broom - right undah de bed right 'bout chure haid. (You have to do that with the broomstraws, too.) [Have I suddenly become incoherent - too?] An' de bottle 'long wit it.
Entry 504
I told him to get some pepper an' throw de seeds all aroun' on de floor. Well, after dey [a hag] came in there, they've got to pick up ever' grain of dat pepper before they kin get out. They kin ketch 'em and they won't come no more.
(Why won't he do that?)
I don't know, sir. He's 'fraid, say he git de pepper - might git it in his eyes or somepin or 'nother like that. Den I told him, I said, "Well, if 'fraid dat," I say, "well, take your broom and sweep your bed down," I say, "ever' night befo' you get in de bed." He do it for about nine nights or nine mornings, why dey won't bother him no more. But dey ride him most ever' night. See, he'll be hollerin' and moanin'.
(Where does he live?)
Next door. So one night, de night befo' last, he wus hollerin' and strugglin' in his sleep. So I called and ast him what wus de matter. And he ast de Lord to help him. He say he tore de cat up and threw him in de fire. [Informant paused here and I turned off my machine, thinking she had ended. But, she added a final statement which I had to repeat as a question to the quickly turned on machine.]
(When he woken up the cat was gone?)
Yes sir. [The witch-hag had changed into a cat before riding this man.]
Entry 505
You buy yo' five cents worth of [corn] meal an' you go to yo' bed an' you sweep de floor clean an' take dat meal an' set it right down by yo' bed on each side. Well, now he got'a count ev'ry nine grains of that thing, ev'ry nine piece of it. In which you got'a go to work an' - [unless you set the witch this counting task] your blood, you get strangulation an' yo' can't speak, yo' Rin not say nothin'. [But] when dem nine grain dere - all dat meal down - counted it, all dem grains - [the witch] can't [do] nothin' - [from] de time yo' go to sleep ain't nothin' harm yo' till yo' wake up. [Charleston, S. Car., (525), 630:8.] [This witch in hag form is quite simple-minded, able to count only to nine - the reason why he must separate thousands of corn-meal grains into little piles of nine. Such a primitive system of counting he had inherited from his witch ancestors. Witches are most conservative. Using the four fingers of his left hand - a witch would never start with the right hand - he presses each in turn against his left thumb; then he presses the four fingers and thumb of the right hand against the left thumb. The total is nine - a magic number. Yes, he forgot to count his left thumb! Actually, the left thumb of a right-handed person was useless until late in civilization when an unknown genius gave us one of the greatest of all inventions, a concept of vast importance - he called the left thumb zero. The decimal system was born.]
The informant claims freedom from harm between sleep and waking; the counting explanation is separate editorial commentary.
Entry 506
Well, now, yo' kin take a broom an' jes' lay it crossways under yore bed an' dat'll stop 'em. Or yo' kin go to three crossways - go to three crossroads an' pick up a little sand outa three crossroads an' throw it up under yore bed an' they wouldn't bother yo' no mo' tuh save yore life. If dey do, ah'll eat dis hat [my black hat containing concealed microphone - see Hat, my black, in Index].
(That will stop these witches?)
Yes sir - dat'll shore stop 'em.
Entry 507
Git yo' three fat-lighter splinters; yo' take a horsehair and tie it with three crosses in it [demonstrates] - yo' cross one dis way and den lay one in that angle. [Yo' cross One (splinter) dis way (over another splinter, making letter X or cross) and den lay one (the third splinter) in that angle (of the X - like this six-pointed star the latter making three crosses).] Take that horsehair and tie it and whoever yo' think that witch is, set a chair by de side of de bed and lay it [three fat-lighter splinters tied by horsehair into three crosses] right in there overnight. If dat witch comes up dere, he will throw that out of the chair on de floor and yo' won't be worried with him any more.
(You have to throw it out on the floor?)
No, he will. He will do that himself because he comes up and sits down in dat chair and he sits on dat and it gits him and he jumps; you know, jest like if you in a chair somewheres and dere's a pin sticking in dat chair - same you, yo' jump up and put chure han' behin' yo'. Well, he throws dat on de floor.
Entry 508
A broom what you sweep with, you leave that to yore feet an' a Bible at chure head and dey won't worry you. But, if you wanta ketch 'em, you sprinkle - you go to de drug store and you buy a nickel's worth of flaxseed and you sprinkle that around in de room, and if de come in dere, you'll wake 'fore he done pick up every one, 'cause dey got'a pick up every one of 'em an' 'fore he done pick 'em up you kin ketch him.
Entry 509
They tell me that you can take a broom or flaxseed. I think flaxseed is more better than a broom. You get about a half a pound of flaxseed or else mustard seed, they are small. If this hag comes in and you can manage to wake up before she goes out, you take these seeds, all loose, and you sprinkle them between her and the door, and she will have to pick up all these seeds before she can get away. While she is picking up these seeds you will be successful in capturing her.
Entry 510
I have been told that if you want to stop a hag when she comes to your house, you will take a fork and stick it in a chair, in [under] the bottom of a chair. And if you believe this party is a hag, then you will make you a big fire and you take this chair and set it close to the fire, and then you take a broom and put it at [across] the door, and then you ask this party to sit down. She will sit in this chair the fork is sticking in. Then you make a hot fire and they can't move. She will keep twisting. And before you release them, you take the broom up across the threshold before you remove the fork, and they can't go otherwise until you move this. And after you move that broom and the fork they will certainly go.
Entry 512
Dey claim if a witch ride joo it's a person dat's living.
(A person that is living - what about it?)
Dey say - now it's a ole story - dey come outa dere skin and comes in through a keyhole. Dat's de ole story - course it's almost impossible fo' yo' to believe it. Dey say dey comes outa dere skin and den comes in through de keyhole an' comes in only whilst yo' sleep an' rides yo' - usually be a ole woman - be a witch - turns to a witch - she be's a witch.
(How do you get rid of her?)
Well, nail a horseshoe up ovah yore do' an' she won't come in.
(Is there any way you can catch her?)
Well, dey say, de way yo' kin ketch her, say yo' kin take a handful of mustard seed and put it down right on de floor right round your bed, an' she got'a count dose seeds befo' she leaves an' dey say yo' ketch [her] dere counting de seeds.
Entry 513
wäl, ah take a horseshoe and wets it - ah dips it in salt water an' ah place dat ovah mah door and each night ah say, "Lord, ah wish dis hag would nevah ride any mo' and ah be jest [left alone]."
Entry 514
Mah grandmother she used to do dat - she'd take a horseshoe. When dey put shoes on a horse - yo' know, take dose shoes off an' put new ones on, why she'd take dose shoes an' put one ovah her front door an' one over her back door; every do' she had yo' know, an' 'nother one right at de doorstep dere at de right corner. Why, she would dig a hole down dere jest about dis big maybe an' put sulphur down in dis hole an' den cover it back up. An' she den would say some kind of ole funny word dey have in dere mind, an' by dat way dey say dey keep witches away - dey wouldn't come in de house an' bother 'em.
Entry 515
If de hag rides yo', yo' gits a piece of dis rusty iron an' yo' take it an' cut it de length of de first joint of middle fingah yoah lef' han' - yoah middle fingah, an' yo' sew it up in a sack an' wear it roun' yoah neck, an' de hag won' ride yo'. Jes' lak if de hag be ridin' yo', have yo' cryin'.
(You mean that tin that comes off of roofs?)
Dat tin-iron.
Entry 516
An' then yo' kin use a knife crossways jes' lak we wus speakin' about - not straight up an' down - Jes' cross undah yore pillah - cross de bed - right crossways of yore haid, where yo' sleep at night. Dat keep 'em from ridin' yo'.
Entry 517
Take yo' pocketknife, de knife yo' tote in yore pocket, an' de witch bothers yo' or mess around wit yo', yo' jes' open dat knife ev'ry night befo' yo' go to bed an' turn de point of it towards yore bed [see No. 436]. Yo'll never have no trouble.
(What else did you say would keep that witch out of the house?)
Dat stuff right heah, dat garlic up over de do'. Yes sir.
Entry 518
If yo' wanta ketch a witch - now, if a person is riding an' yo' wanta ketch 'um, yo' takes nine mustard seeds an' put 'em undah a sifter an' turn 'em down undah a sifter. De next morning he'll be there tryin' tuh count dose seeds an' yo' kin ketch him right dere.
(What'will he look like?)
He liable to be a ant or liable tuh be any kind of a little bug - you may not pay it no mind but dat's whut it is.
Entry 519
If de witches ridin' yo' at night, den yo' could take mustard seeds - yo' take twenty mustard seeds an' put under de sifter, see, an' yo' ketch dem. Ah've heard dat.
(What would you do if you caught her?)
Say dey'd be under dere tryin' count de seeds - find 'em under dere de next morning countin' de seeds, trying tuh git out.
(What do they look like?)
Well, dey tell me it looks like - when yo' first see it it looks like a little doll, somepin lak dat. [Here, the witch does not become an insect or take off skin to enter a house, he or she reduces size to a diminutive person - again changing form at your first glance. This.protean ability is characteristic of all spirits (see No. 70 and Index); a witch in hag form being a spirit.] Ah had a uncle onest he caught one. He's dead now but he tole us he caught one.
Entry 520
Yo' take nine needles an' yo' use'ly puts 'em on a card together - de nine needles an' take an' wrop 'em up in a ball, in a small ball, an' drop 'em right down at de foot of yore bed, an' dat use'ly keep de witch away or either yo' ketch 'em, but ah nevah known dat yet.
Entry 521
If a witch comes to your house and when she come in she gits on you, you know, and begins riding you, you have a handful of oats and throw it all over the room. She'll be there in the morning picking them up.[ Boxiron, Worcester Co., on Chincoteague Bay, near Snow Hill, Md., (88), by hand.]
Entry 522
You take dis sage whut dey use for Christmas in turkey an dat'll keep 'em away from dere. You take dis sage, you understand - you jis' take a leaf, you understand and repeat some of de Ten Commandments; jis' de same as each one of dese little leaves is a letter, "Thou shalt not steal." You jis' take dose little leaves off dis sage, jis' pull 'em off, "Thou shalt not steal" - you put it down dere. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" - you put it down dere, until you git the ten. An' take 'em, you understand, wherever de witch comes in, you understand, jis' spread 'em out over de doorsill, you understand, an' put a piece of carpet over 'em, and dat's where he git right to de door - he stop right dere.
Entry 523
Dat sulphur, yo' take dat sulphur an' sprinkle it round yore house - jes' lak yo' got a room an' somepin worryin' yo' in dere, yo' know, yo' take sulphur an' sprinkle it all round in yore room. An' it won't worry yo' any mo'.
(That was a hag?)
Supposes tuh be a hag. Some folks say it a hag an' some folks say it's yore blood, because ah've been lak dat. Dey ride me in de night.
(What do they say they do to get rid of them?)
Well, some folks say yo' kin put a broom on de bed an' some folks say yo' kin sprinkle salt ovah de bed. Some folks say yo' kin take a brand new knife an' put dat - lay dat in de bed side an' dat'll keep 'em from worryin' yo' at night. But ah re'lly didn't try none of those things.
Entry 524
You take a scissors and put it under de bed on a newspaper, you under- stand; lay de scissors here and de newspaper here, an' when he git dere he got'a put his hand on ev'ry letter. See, by time he git through dat, it's day an' he got'a go. (You put the scissors and the newspaper under the head of the bed, a newspaper next to it - underneath the scissors or next to it?) Right next to it - here's one and here's the other.
Entry 525
If yo' in a house or somepin of de kind an' sleepin' in dere an' witches an' things, sech things lak dat, ridin' yo', tell yo' whut's good fo' yo'. Some- time yo' put chure Bible undah yore haid. If yo' don't do dat, sometimes yo' kin take a knife an' fo'k an' cross it - cross it dataway yo' know an' lay hit undah yore haid. Sometimes dey say yo' kin put a sifter undah yore haid - dat'll stop dat. [Sifter under head but on floor.]
Entry 526
Take de collard or any small seed an' take yo' a sifter an' put de seed down lak dat an' cover it up, an' lay dat sifter ovah it whut chew sift de flour with, if yo' wanta ketch him [the witch], an' yo' wake up de nex' mawnin', say he be undah dere - he got'a count ever' one dose seed 'fore he git out dere, an' yo' kin ketch him.
(How would you know he's there?)
Well, if he's dere, he'll be in a bug or he'll be in a big fly or some kinda insect or somepin.
(What do you call that when you catch that?) [Not a leading question!]
A witch.
Entry 527
Tuh ketch dat thing yo' call a witch - ah've known of 'em tuh ketch dat. Jes' lak if yo' 'custom to have a witch ridin' yo', yo' always have somebody notified. Jes' lak yo' will snore - yo' cain't holler, yo' kin snore, an' when dey ridin' yo', have somebody dere wit de sifter an' a whole lot'a mustard seed. An' no sonner [sooner] den dis witch startin' ridin' yo', dey come right on ovah an' jes' take dat sifter an' jes' lay it ovah dere.
(They do that while you are asleep?)
Take dat an' jes' lay dat ovah yo'. Now, when dey git offa yo', when yo' wake up den, yo'll find dem standin': Dey ate a hole in it an' dat mustard seed went through dat sifter. An' yo' kin git a - or if yo' kin git a silver ball, silver or copper or somepin lak dat, an' de person whosomevah it is dat jumped outa dere skin -
(That person whoever it is will jump out of their skin?)
Dat's right, dey call dat juonpin' out dere skin. An' if yo' see dat thing, don't kill 'em. Yo' kin go an' put some peppah an' salt on it, an' ev'ry time dev jump in dey got'a git right back out. An' dey stay dere lak dat seven or eight hours, trying tuh git in it. De black peppah burns 'em every time - de time dey jump in it.
(And that kills them?)
Yes.
Entry 528
I have heard my mother tell how to stop witches from riding you in your sleep and awake. The way to stop them is to hang a sifter on your bedroom door near the keyhole, and when they come in they get in that sifter and has to go through each and every hole in the bottom of the sifter before they can do as they want. Often it gits caught in the shape of a fly or worm going in and out the holes.
Entry 529
If you feel like he's [a hag's] comin' on you, keep workin' your fingers and toes and dey'll go away. An' den sometimes dey won't do dat, dey'll jis' jump on you an' ride you - jis' ride you until dey see fit to turn you loose. When you wake up you jis' make a long breathe [long breath]. Well, dey tell me you kin put a sifter down, if the hag come in dere or de witch or whatsomever it is. An' [later] it happen to be a bug crawlin' aroun' in dere, you ketch it an' put him in somepin, you know, where he couldn't git out. An' da' choo goin' count ever' one dem holes [in the sifter], ever' one dem holes, an' befo' you git through countin' dat dere'll be somebody dere to come an' beg to turn 'em loose. An' you'll know dat's an enemy. You have to count 'em, take a needle an' go roun' an' count 'em, an' before you git through countin' dem, dat dere be some- body to come in. Dey ast you to turn 'em loose. [The victim instead of the hag or witch counting the holes of a sifter is most unusual.]
Entry 530
They tell me to stop a witch from coming to your house hang a sifter over the door hole and when she comes she'll have to count every one of those holes, and if she misses a count she'll have to start all over again and by that time it will be day and she'll have to leave.
Entry 531
If yo' be worried lak that, yo' take yore chewin' tobacco an' yo' place it undah yore pillah. Well, vo' put chure money there undah yore pillah - silver money, a dime or a quarter, ah guess. Well, dey says take a chew of tobacco an' count yore money if yo' got any change an' den dey are gone.
(The night hag?) [Informant had called the rider a hag.]
Yes. [This is a good trick if you can do it - to count your silver while chewing tobacco, despite a witch's hands about your throat. Spirits and witches dislike tobacco, detest tobacco juice: "I told my husband she had my chickens bewitched. He said, "I will fix her." So he drawed her picture with her pipe in her mouth. It sure look like she was standing right there. My husband is a witch doctor and he did not have to take her picture to a white oak tree, he just spit tobacco juice in her eyes. Several weeks after that I met my friend (the witch) and she could not see. Her eyes were all sore. I said, "What is wrong with your eyes?" But I knew it was the tobacco spit in her eyes." (Following this quotation is the word Irish - meaning informant was of Irish origin.) See FACI,2ed., p.835.]
Entry 532
Dey claim yo' kin put a pan of watah under yore bed and say three words, jest say, "Father, Son and the Holy Ghost," and den go to bed and dey claim de witches will not come.
Entry 533
A bucket of water or somepin under de bed an' you'll ketch 'em [hag] or either flaxseeds. Jis' put de water under de bed, you know, an' de next mornin' you'll find a bug or somepin in it.
Entry 534
Ah heard tell, lak ketchin' a person's spirit - if dere's somepin dey calls a witch dat is ridin' yo' - if it's a spirit or somebody dat wantin' tuh tell yo' somepin - or somebody is tryin' tuh worry yo' because yo' worryin' some of dey folks upon heah. Ah heard tell dat at times dey might want a drink of whiskey or somepin if dey wus a big drunkard, an' dey worry yo lak dat; if yo po' down a drink of whiskey, dey're gone away an' won't bother yo' no mo'. If they bother yo' right on, yo' take an' git chew a sifter an' place it in de bed with yo', an' at the time this thing start tuh ridin', if yo' kin ketch it up - but it's kind of a strain fo' yo' tuh ketch it up, an' turn it ovah one time an' yo' ketch de spirit in dere. Dey tell me yo' see a lil' somepin de next mawnin' there in de sifter. [See Spirits, like alcohol, in Index.]
Entry 535
Well, dey say if a person dies, if he die cruel to yo' or something lak dat, say his spirit will come back. Well, it comes den through a dream - co'se dey has rid me - it jest as natchral though as I'm lookin' at chew. They jumps right up on yo' an' dey ketch yo' an' when dey ketches yo', yo' try to call but yo' can't call - yo' jes' [demonstrates] (gasp - gasp) jest lak dat until he turn yo' loose.
(Trying to catch your breath?)
That's right, until he turn yo' loose, an' yo' kin hear 'im when he hit de floor - an' yo' kin hear him when he come in, but chew can't see him.
(This is a spirit?)
That's right.
(Well, can't you keep them out of the house any way?)
Yo' take a new piece of lumber an' take yo' a lamp. First, yo' take that lumber, a new piece dat nevah been used, an' drive it right cross de do' an' set dat lamp about three and a half feet from it, an' he'll nevah walk in no more.
(What kind of a lamp?)
Jest a ordinary burning lamp, oil lamp.
(You keep that lamp lighted at night?)
Jest turn it low an' put dat piece of new lumber down dere an' yo' won't be bothered with him any more - unless you'd use it, take it up. (Did you ever hear of them catching one of those people - sometimes they catch them?) Well, ah've heard they catch them in a sifter. Yo' takes a sifter an' when yo' put it over yore face, right up on yore breast lak that, or if it's a person dat have drunk whiskey - if he is a whiskey drinker, yo' takes a little whiskey yo' put right round in dat place, an' when he comes, he'll git in dat an' yo'll ketch him and when yo' ketch him, he's jest a lump of jelly.
Entry 536
This happened down here in Charlotte [County, Virginia] about fifty-one years ago [1886]. They used to say it was something they called The Old Hag. (The Old Hag.) Used to ride folks. And this old man used to come to this other man's house and ride him like a horse. It's a fact, he used to ride this old man. And it was this old lady over there tell him what to do - this old witch tell him what to do, say, "Stanely [Stanley?], you go and get you a bottle tonight and put it right by your bed and when dat ole hag jump on you - course you can't get dat bottle [while he's riding you], but the time he jump off you, you grabs de bottle and makes your water in it 'fore he get out de house."
[Like No. 531, this is another good trick, if you can do it!]
And this ole man did that. And the next morning the old man that was doing de riding, he come back there - he come back and he'd been walking round and talking round, looked kind of draggy-fied, kind of ashamed, downcast, and all that thing. But this old man, he didn't said anything - [didn't] said why did he ever come again - walking round and talking round, and the fellow said nuthin', and the third time round he said, "Goodness sakes, you got me tie up - I want you to please turn me loose."
(What do you mean by tied up - he couldn't make water?)
Couldn't make water - and he say, "No sir, I ain't got you tie up - you tie yourself up. he says, "Yes," he says, "this is the last place I stays at - please turn me loose." So he pleaded wit him and he promised him dat he wouldn't ride him no more, so the ole man turn him loose. And that was a fact because dat happened since I was a child like that.
The informant reports the designation The Old Hag; the male rider and quoted adviser remain distinct in the account.
Entry 537
Ah said dat de witch got mad wit me one day 'bout mah husband. (Did you call her a witch - a colored witch?) [I am repeating what she had previously said.] Yes sir - she's daid though now, but she come dat night an' got at me 'cause ah didn't let 'er sew on mah machine an' she said, "Fo'kses be here sewin' on dat machine an' you'll be gone." An' she lit right on me - ah had a little baby an' she took de baby an' laid him off aside - then she jumped - said she didn't Wanta hurt de baby - said, "Ah'll kill you tonight." She jumped on me an' she caught me right in my throat here - an' yo' know yo' can't talk plain when dey ketch yo' an' ah jes' could mumble - mumble - an' mah husban' he wus asleep - sleepin' in another bed an' he heard me groaning. So he jumped an' run up in de room where ah wus an' asked me whut on earth de mattah, an' ah said it wus a woman, "Dat woman whut worked wit you, she jumped on me jes' now." An' when she went to go out, de house popped - an' she said, "Ah didn't git chah dis time."
(She went out of the house, how?)
De house popped when she went to go out. An' ah tole 'er, ah say, "You didn't git me dis time," ah say, "you won't nevah git me, '' 'cause she didn't know ah knowed dis trick about whut to do tuh witches. Ah jumps up an' made de watah an' put de bottle up de chimley - turn de bottle up - den in a day or two she come dere beggin' me to take 'er down, beggin' me to take 'er down. Ah tole 'er, 'Take yo' down for what, ' ah said, "ah didn't put chew nowhere." She say, "Yes, yo' got me up de chimley." An' she jes' - an begs me to take 'er down. An' dey said it ought nevah been done - ought nevah took de bottle down - oughta jes' let 'er die. Yes sir. (What did you do then with that bottle? When you released her, what did you do with that bottle?) It was a black bottle. [See also No. 40. Here is the deadly black bottle formerly much used in the New Orleans area.]
(It was a black bottle - you took the bottle out of the chimley?)
Yes sir.
(So she could be all right. What did you do with the bottle?)
Ah just took it an' chunked it away. Dey tole me to chunk it in runnin' watah an' ah chunked it, an' she jes' goin' it all de time - she nevah was satisfied nowhere.
(Did that happen to her? She didn't ride you any more?)
No sir. She nevah bothered me no more.
(Who told you that old prank - where did you hear it?)
Well, a ole lady. She was ole, too - she tole me to do dat.
(A colored woman or a white woman?)
Colored woman.
(Where did this happen - what county?)
Marengo [County], Alabama.
(How long ago was that?)
Dat's been now about thirty-five years ago. [This is my only example of a witch putting a bad mouth on a sleeping or half- sleeping person.]
Entry 538
Nine pins and nine needles.
(Yes?)
You see, you put haids down and tails up, and heads down and tails up [alternate them] - say, to keep the witch away from your house.
(To keep the witch away. Where Would he put these?)
You just stick 'em in a bottle.
(I see. Who told you that?)
His name was Simon Pugh.
(Pugh. Well, what was he - was he a root doctor?)
He called hisself to be a root doctor and also a preacher.
(I see - that was down in North Carolina.)
That's right - in Littleton, North Carolina.
Entry 539
(They do what?)
Three tacks, new tacks, in the doorsill and that broke 'em off of her. I've heard her tell that.
(These hags riding her - or whatever it was?)
Yes - everwhat it was, they use to ride her. I remember her making this awful noise - leastways I was a great big girl but we used to be afraid of her when she lie down and go to sleep, and run and leave the house and get somebody to come in and to shake her. I 'member one [once] we'd taken a broom and throwed on de bed on her - we were afraid to go to her - she was carryin' on so. And so the way she got broke of them, I heard her say that she went to some old root doctor and he told her to go to the store and buy a new box of tacks - drive three new tacks in the doorsill in her bedroom and said they couldn't cross those tacks. I'd heard that story - when you ask me, things come to me.
Entry 540
De same thing as ah said - yo' kin take a bread sifter and a fork, jest put de fork in de bread sifter and set dem down on de chair by de side of de bed, and he'll be right dere till morning trying to count de holes.
(What does he look like in the morning?)
Ah nevah caught one. But ah've had some few [patients] to come tuh me for dat, an' ah tole 'em to do dat and dey'd jump out of bed and run, leave 'em dere. Dey looked like a man was skint [skinned] - look like a person what was skint, had just been skint like yo'd skin a cow. It's his frame standing dere and he slip out of his hide.
Entry 541
I was about ten years old. Well, mah grandmother used to tell me if ah wouldn't be good that a hag. she would come at night an' ride me. Well, ah never did believe it tull - when ah'd go to bed, jis' about ev'ry mawnin' jis' about fo' 'clock, it would always be some dark woman would come an' git right on mah bed an' seemed if she tried to choke me. An' she'd be chokin' me an' chokin' me an' it seemed like always jis' de time ah'd be tryin' tuh holler she'd choke me all de tighter. Well, she kept doin' dat fer about a week - she never would choke me to death but she always would choke me where ah really would be stran- gled. She did dat about two weeks out of ev'ry month an' it wus jes' like dat fer about six months. De doctor he said ah was nervous. So my mother she kept on tryin' ev'rythin' an' so a ole lady [doctor] tole her to take straws an' put 'em in de center of bed at night when ah go to bed, like a cross, an' dat would stop it. Well, she tried dat - two crosses dere fer a while an' fer a while de woman she'd always come an' bother me but she never would come near to choke me, she'd stand off with one of her hands up in front of her face. So mah mother she started to put mah brother in de bed to sleep with me. Well, instead of bothering me de woman would go to mah brother an' bother him, an' she did him de same way she did me fer a long time until she had him where he Was gittin' pore - losin' weight all de time. She tried de straws on mah brother but dey wouldn't help him at all. So she would take him an' put him in bed with her an she could wake up an' really see him choking at night. But de woman never did come bother me long as: de straws was in mah bed. So de ole lady tole my mother that it wasn't but one thing fer her to do, that Was to burn this heah sulphur in all de rooms at night befo' we go to bed - shut de windahs tight down an' wouldn't open up de windahs no mo' atall at night to let air in - let her in - fer at least a month. So mah mother she did dat for at least a month. Well, grad'lly - we'd always hear a noise lak somebody scratchin' on de side of de windahpane tryin' to git in. So purty soon it stopped an' mah mother she could raise de windahs again. But always, along about around de full of de moon, dis woman she'd come back. She always would come back an' yo' could hear her laugh - a funny laugh at night.
(But she never bothered you any more?)
Nevah bothered us any more but she always jes' come back an' laughed.
Entry 542
Well, I know a lady one time that was sick from - ah don't know what was de cause of her sickness, but they said that they thought someone was mad at her and they claimed that the witches Was riding her. But what I was just speaking about was here in - this has been 'round about twenty-one years ago. And - oh, the witches would ride 'er nights. A witch got after her one day in the daytime and she described the lady's dress and called de lady's name, and de lady came there to de house that day. She said the man [doctor] told her that he would bring her there to her. And the lady came there and she said this lady had on a blue dress with white round the sleeves - said that she had a real fat wrist. And this lady, we children used to call her butter-wrist. She wasn't neither light nor red; she was a kind of a pumpkin color and we used to call her butter- wrist - her complextion, you know. And so she said this lady was mad with her - see, over a young man. Seems if - she had a niece that, why she had raised, and this young man you know had visited her [the niece] once or twice and he liked this other girl better than he did her, and someone had circulated the news that they were married, going to marry. And this girl [niece] got sick, and then when she began to get better, why then this witch commenced to bother her. And sometimes you could be settin' beside of her bed and you could hear just like someone came in the door, but the door would still be shut. Sometimes the door would shake and the people would say it was the wind. And then you would hear her keeping [imitating?] the noise - see if it would go away. She'd say, "That witch pest is after me," says, "there she go." And so one night we said we were going to stay there and watch - I was always like a little curiosity. So we said we were going to set up and watch for her that night. So they heard 'em say you could hang a sifter over the door, you know, or over your bed, and the witch couldn't bother you because it had to count all those holes, and before they'd get through counting those holes it would be dawn. So we hung the sifter up and then they crossed nine needles and nine pins in the back - said they would stick in her when she come down the back of the fireplace.
(Where did they cross these needles and pins?)
In the back of the fireplace - you know, the fireplace that has the little shoulders, two of them. And you cross them, you see, and they gets hot. And they took a horseshoe and hung up over the door [demonstrates] - see, that will keep evil ones out.
(They hung it with the open part up - I see.)
Yes - see they hangs this horseshoe with the open part up. Say, long as that horseshoe up over the door with the open part up - and we'd taken and got us a box of new cayenne pepper and a box of salt and a box of sulphur, and we mixed that together and put some of that in a thin bag or a piece like mosquito lawn, so it would just set right down over the door, and anyone come in, see, opening the screen door, why that would touch it, you see. Well, they say a witch, you know, doesn't have any skin on, you see, and if that salt and pepper gets on 'em, you see, that will hurt them. And so then we all goes in de room and lays down and we leaves de door open a crack so we could watch her bed, and so we fixes de light out there in her room. And so we takes some Sunday School books - a man told us to take some Sunday School books and Bibles and turn to a certain chapter in de Bible, but have de whole nine chapters - books of de same chapter and lays 'em open - said, and she would come and we could see her in person. Said the person -
(They used nine books?)
Uh-huh - there wouldn't be any way fer her to get on de bed.
(Nine books of what - nine different Bibles?)
Nine Bibles, all the same chapters - see, use those Sunday School books or whatever books you can; little Bible stories that have the same chapter, just like the 15th Chapter of John, you see, or the Psalms. Well, you see, we had difficulty in getting nine Bibles and they used Sunday School books with them. And you take those Sunday School books, and you just lie them down, you see, on de side of de bed and one to the head of de bed and one to de foot and then she takes the Bible, you see, and lies that right 'cross her breast. [Nine Bibles should be used - three on each side of the bed, one at head and foot of bed, and one on the breast; the latter must be a Bible. These nine books are unevenly, odd-numberly placed.] And so, we hadn't just finished fixing that and been in the room more than thirty-five minutes before she says, "Here she is" - says, "here's Miz So-and- So" - says, "here's Miz So-and-So." She said that she made a shadow between her and de light. She says, "Hurry up - she's done blowed out dat light - hurry up and come on out with a lamp - she's done gone and blowed out de light." The lady [aunt] she says, "No, she ain't." "That was her shadow," says [bewitched woman], 'that's her'" - says, "that's her - the light's not out - that's her - she's in between me and the light - ah thought mah light was out." And the door shook again, but we didn't fix but one door, and then she come in the back door. There was two back doors and a shed on the house, and we didn't fix both of those back doors because it usually been the front door, see, where we come in to, the nearer the girl's bed - see, the bed was like there and we fixed the door there, but we didn't fix these two back doors. So, when she went through this door it just shook, and the back door just opened and shut, and we opened the door - opened the inside door and it looked just like looking out through her kitchen door, and it was still so just like we left it.
(Did you see anything at all?)
No, we didn't see anything, but she seen it.
Entry 543
Her daughter wouldn't let her be shrouded.
(Well, why wouldn't they let her be shrouded - what's the idea of that?)
Well, they said people would find out where she was.
(Oh, I see.)
You see, that was to keep people from finding - knowing where she was, and she had been shot in her hip, and she was crippled in her hip. Of course, you know, she wasn't shot person'ly - she fell on the road and it [her hip] broke, but they said a man had drew her pitchure in the woods, you know. He had a little store and each and ev'ry night someone would go in there, you know, and get things outen the store and he couldn't see nowheres they entered. So a man [doctor] told him one day what to do to prevent 'em - says, "Now, you put a hacksaw in there [storeroom? or keyhole?].
(A hacksaw?)
A hacksaw - that's one of them things with a whole lots of picks sticking up. I don't know now what you use it for. [He] says, "When you come back tomorrow, you kin sprinkle some salt and pepper 'round here near the keyhole" - says, "and when you come back tomorrow morning, she'll be standing out chere anxious fer you to go in" - says, "and don't you open the door and let her in" - says, "if you do, why you can't taken it offen her." So that morning, the man says, when he came down, why she was standing there. And she says, "Ah been here waiting and waiting fer you fer hours." [He] says she just hollered at him. [She] says, "And ah want some matches. I can't make a fire," she says, "and cook me and my children nothing to eat." He says, "Well, I'm sorry, I haven't got no matches, '' says, "I'm started down to the post office and I haven't got time to go in the store. I'm in a hurry." And he went right on. Ooh, they says she just shook and she ran on then and started running home. So he went on back to the house - instead of keeping on to the post office, he went on back to the house. And he'd always heard that you could draw a person if you [the person] was a witch and draw dey pitchure on a shingle, or eitherwise on a cake of bread, you know, like people used to bake bread to a fireplace, flour bread. I don't know whether you've heard talk of it but they could.
(Flour bread?)
Yes, take and make it up like you gon'a make biscuits and put it on a griddle and sit it up to a fire - in front of a fireplace and let it bake. And he draw her pitchure as near as he could, or the image of her, you know, and taken it back in de woods and shot it - cut up silver money and put in there instead of the shots in de shell and shot it. And they said that she was just about a quarter of a mile from home and on a plain straight road, smooth road - no roots, not anything - and when he shot that pitchure just through de hip, she fell. Her leg broke - her hip. And so de people went and found her - she hollered and the people came. And she said she had stumped her foot over a root and there wasn't any root there, and they said she had a broken hip. And so her daughter wouldn't let anyone shroud her when she died.
Entry 544
So we didn't have any more trouble. Ah seen a man [doctor] and this where I was telling you about de frogs. So ah told him [about the witch or hag bothering his mother]. And he told me - it's about a piece of beef, says, "We goin' tuh kill beef tomorrow,"' say, "when you buy a piece of beef, be sure and have a piece of silver money to pay for it - you fetch it but I give it back to you." He says, [When] "you buy this piece of beef," says, "don't carry any pan or nothing out there for tuh bring in de house then, but let the blood drop from that beef right on straight on through the house, from beginning right on in the kitchen," say, "and you won't be bothered anymore, ' and he says, "they might come but they cain't come in."
(Was he a white man or a colored man?)
No, he was a colored man.
(Colored man.)
He was a colored man. And so I went down there to the gate and got the beef and he gave me a piece of beef liver too, see, and I had a piece [of beef] in each hand and de blood was just a-dripping, and it dripped right all round there [the gate]. And I carried it in de kitchen and put it on de table and I'd taken a cloth and wiped my hands. And my mother called me - she was helpl's then, and she called me then to come in and get the [silver] money [for the man] and I threw this cloth right on de floor. And it seems - looked like de blood just got right down there. And my sister was out there and so she picked it up and hung up beside de door. Well, you see it was so bloody and all because it was - the porch, see, down there. They had one of those walkways [breezeway or dogtrot] between the house, and she hung it up there. And see, there was so much blood on it until it just ran up there, you know, against the side of de door - you know, like you have a nail for to hang a pan or somepin beside de door. So, that was a Saturday evening [afternoon] round about two o'clock. So, I hung de beef up in de kitchen. He tole me to put just a piece of paper or somepin lak that what I could throw right on away, under it fer to ketch the drops. And that Saturday night 'tween nine and ten o'clock my mother lied down. So then, brother and I, and my niece what stayed there with us - we sits round dere. There wasn't but three of us dere to home - and my sister's child stayed with us. And so we wasn't more than in the bed good before my mother called me and she says, "There's [they are] right round de house." And I got out and looked and I didn't see anything at all. She says, "Is there [they are there]." And we had some geese and they was just de same as a dog in de yard when there Was anything out there, and they was just running round and keeping a noise, just lak whenever a dog would get dere in de yard, or some person - just a-honking and keeping a lots of noise, and it seems like I had de funniest feeling to de shoes. And she says, "It was right there in that window. It was in the summertime and we had the screen in the window, wire tacked in. We didn't use drawed [sliding] screens - used de wire nailed in - and de curtain were up, and see there was a moon shining just as pretty and bright as day. And she said they were standing right dere in dat window, 'Cause ah seed 'em, ' says, "and I wouldn't tell you that there was somebody there, 'cause I was afraid you would get frightened and I know you would take the gun and shoot," she says, "and then that would tear my nerves all to pieces." "Well, '' ah says, '"mother, ah does feel funny. She says, "Well, when you went out in de other room, dey come back," she says, "you go back in the other room and see will dey come back." Ah says, "Well, if dey do, you kin'ly knock on de house or somepin." And she says, "Ah clear up mah throat." So I went on back den in de livingroom and went on through in de shedroom, and she said, "Here dey is," and I went back and looked and ah couldn't see anything. My brother and I we took de gun and shot and ah thought my mother would die. And I've been shootin' dat gun ever since I guess I was round about ten year old, and had never had it kick before. But I don't figure though where it kicked me - see, I didn't hold it fast 'nuff when I was shootin' in de excitement, but I know it was a miserable feelin'. And those geese kicked up until day. That's my last great experience that I've had with witches.
[After informant leaves I comment to microphone.]
(And that ended the witch story end of 438 repeated things of yesterday because of bad recording.) [Elizabeth City, N. Car., (438), 410:1.] [Although relations between layman and doctor were previously mentioned, here we will consider in greater detail and wider field laymen's thoughts about and experiences with doctors. This will complete our preparation for meeting doctors personally in the following interview section. Where to begin is the prqblem because doctors are many-sided persons - healer, witch doctor, ghost layer, seer, fortune-teller, shrine keeper, spiritual, buried-treasure hunter, love adviser, courtroom specialist, gambling consultant, bootlegger's friend, and just about anything wanted. I start with a rather broad subject I must call diagnosis.]