Browse:A STRANGE WORLD (Volume 1, entries 1–18)
A STRANGE WORLD
Volume 1, entries 1–18. Entries listed under this heading in the source volume.
Entries
Entry 1
It was a stormy night, thundering and lightning and raining, and this old witch [Millie] was dying. My mother and father and grandmother and lots of other people were there. And she started to climb up the wall. Of course they had to tie her in bed. And then they all got frightened. My mother got under the bed. And she died that night. And when the time for the funeral came, which I guess was about two or three days after, they put her in the hearse. And she bled from the house to the cemetery. It came through the casket [coffin] and hearse. They say there was a stream of blood from the house to the cemetery. [New York City, (1), by hand. These three facts - where collected, from whom and how, are given for all material; sometimes "when" is added, this in Gaston Co., N. Car.,1892.]
Entry 2
[I now guote for comparison of beliefs mv accounts of the preceding white witch's death and burial:] Miss Healer [a professional healer] called me [the Informant] up [1932] and said Witch was sick and she wanted to see me. So that Sunday afternoon [my] Daughter took me over to Witch's, and Witch told me she was sick. And then she said, "Informant, do you know that Christ came to me this morning and had His thorns on His head like when He was crucified." And then she said He had His arms stretched out like this [here Informant stretched out her arms imitating Witch's action] and called her. He wanted her to come. Then we just talked from then on. Well, then I don't know what happened. See. But every day it just seemed like I would have to go to her house. And we generally just set and talked. That was about six weeks all told. And then one Saturday morning I went real early, about eight o'clock, and when I went in, this Miss Healer was there. And then she left. Then Witch's Husband, he wanted to go to the barber shop to get shaved, and he said, "Well, I'll go because Informant is here." After he left, Witch got those hysterical spells. She would scream and pull her hair and kind of go wild. I couldn't do anything with her. Then, every time I would leave her house, she would pray on me and made a cross about here [Informant crossed her heart]. Every time she made a prayer, she Was praying over these medals. [Informant, though a Prot- estant, was wearing several blessed Roman Catholic medals over her heart.] She didn't know I had them on, of course. Well, that was the last Saturday I was there. See. So when I got home I called Miss Healer and I said, "Do you think Witch is worse?" And she said, "No." She said, "Mrs. Informant, I think she's just working on your nerves" - cause she said, whenever she's there, Witch's all right; but whenever Witch seen me coming, she would throw herself into those Spells. So I told Miss Healer about Witch praying on me, and she said, "I be- lieve she's putting you in a spell." And she said, "Why can't you go out to Father Z?" And, let's see, we waited until next week. Miss Friend [Roman Catholic] took us [Informant, Daughter and small Grandson] out. We pressed the bell and went into the hallway and some young priest came. We told him we Wanted to speak to Father Z. Then Miss Friend introduced me to him. And he told her to go into the parlor on the other side. And I guess I went into his study. Well, then we talked and he said, "What made you come to me?" He said, "Don't you go to any church?" I told him I belonged to B. Church [which Informant had not attended for years] and he said, why didn't I go to him [the clergyman there]. I told him that I heard out to Y. Church the priests could help you if you thought you were hoodooed. He didn't say much of anything. He was a very firm old man. Let's see, so then I told him about Witch and told him that it seemed like I had to go every day. So then he said, "Who is this old hex?" I said, "Her name is Witch" - I didn't even say her last name - "she lives in the south part of towm." And he said to me, "Oh my!" He said, "You are about the fiftieth person from the South End of town that's been to me because they thought this woman had hoodooed them." And then he said something about the South End of town. I don't remember what he said. I told him, too, about her saying that we had it too good here [in Informant's home], that she was going to get even with us and make me suffer, having this swell home and getting all of [Husband'sl salary, and this and that. And then I told him about [Husband]. At that time Husband hadn't left home yet. [Informant and Husband separated perman- ently two years later.] And he said to me, "Don't you divorce him" - that's been three years ago [1932] - "he'll give this girl up." Everybody thought so. He said, "A wife has the best chance of holding a husband." So then he prayed on me. He stood up with his cross and prayed over me - whatever you call it. And he said, "I am going to give you this medal. I think it is the best one in my whole collection." Then after I thought a minute, I said to Father Z., 'Do you think it would hurt me to put this medal in Husband's clothes?" And he said, "No, it might help." He wanted Husband to come out to see him, and I told him he would never come. See, he kinda thought we were both put in a spell. But see, Husband would never go. So he said to me, "Don't you ever go in Witch's house again." I told him I wouldn't. And he said he would offer special prayers for me in church next day. I said, "What do I owe you?" He said, "Nothing." I said, "I want to give you something for your trouble and time." So I gave him a dollar. And he told me to drop it in a little slit in the desk. I don't know what he said, whether they use it for the poor or for the church. I think he said that. Miss Friend said if I had given him a quarter he would have been satisfied. And then we [Informant and Miss Friend] went out to the car. And then Miss Friend took Grandson and Daughter in. Daughter thought Witch had Grandson hoo- dooed too. It seemed that every time she [Witch] would come here [to Informant's home], Grandson would get one of those spells. He would be playing, and if Witch Would be here, see, why it just seemed like he would fall any place he would be at. One day he was at the top of the steps and fell clean down. Another day he stood in the cellar way here [just off the kitchen where I sat while recording this story]. And several times he was sitting in the high-chair and would just get like a dish rag, limber, and fall right out of the chair and turn blue. And sometimes it would take us a half hour to get him to come out of it. And Witch [who was frequently hired for housework] would always run and pick him up and rub him. Daughter and I would cry, thought he was going to die. And she said, "Oh, he will be all right." So one day Daughter found one of his stockings on a bush around the house, and so she got it and took it to the cellar and burned it up. After we burned that up Witch never came back. Then Witch took sick. That's where my story started, see. Well, then, all the doctors thought Grandson had heart trouble and they couldn't do anything for him. And they said they didn't understand why the medicine didn't work on him to get him out of these spells.- Dr. Q. said, whenever he got another spell, to call him up that minute. He never got any more after we burned the stocking. But in the meantime we took him to Father Z. I didn't go in, but Daughter told him that she thought he had heart trouble. And he said he never heard a child so small [two years old] having heart trouble. He prayed on Grandson and he never had another spell. Daughter Wasn't so generous. She didn't give him a nickel. It was worth a dollar, if you thought you were in a spell, to get rid of it. From that time on he began to gain and gain, and Dr. Q. couldn't understand it. When I came back from Father Z., I called up Miss Healer and told her I went to Father Z. and he told me not to go to Witch's house any more. So I didn't. But the end of the week, Witch kept calling for me, said she must see me. And Miss Healer knew that I would not go there any more because Father Z. told me not to, so she told Witch my phone Was out of order. And Witch told her, "You try again every day until you get her." That was like Friday. Saturday after- noon Miss Healer went to Witch's to give her a treatment. Miss Healer is sup- posed to be a healer. She don't tell you what she does. People say she is good. She don't take no pay. What you give her she takes. Then, while she was there, Witch grabbed her by the wrist, like this [Informant demonstrated the hold], and Miss Healer said to me, "You don't know what a feeling it was." I said to Miss Healer, "Maybe she is putting a spell on you." And Miss Healer said, "I am not afraid of her because I can take spells off." She says she can't, but the South End says she can. So Monday morning Miss Healer called me up and told me she went to St. Mary's Hospital Sunday afternoon to give one of her patient's treat- ment. She walked up the steps and as she got in the big hall she fell flat, full length of her face. She said the sister run to see if she was hurt. She said, "No." But she said, "I felt like a fool." She said it hurt her so bad she could hardly get home. So she didn't go to Witch's, Sunday night. So Monday morning Witch's Husband went after her. She told Witch's Husband she couldn't come, she fell and hurt herself. So she didn't go Monday to Witch's. Then he said, "Call Informant on the phone." And she told him our phone was still out of order. Then Tuesday morning early, Witch's Husband went about six o'clock and begged her to come again. She said, "I can't come, I can't walk on my foot." She told me she wouldn't go back. So he went back home and told Witch. And she made him go to the grocery store on the corner, F's Grocery, and call her up again, or me. She said, "I told you I couldn't come at six o'clock and I can't come now." I don't know what I will do," he says, "no neighbor will come in [they were afraid of Witch]." Then Witch's Husband went home from the grocery store and Witch was dead. Died all alone. I went to the funeral after she was dead. I wasn't afraid then. British. [British = Informant was of British descent, though of old American stock; other persons were of German descent - FACI (= Folklore From Adams County Illinois), 2ed., 1965, p.918f.; recorded by hand, word for word.]
Entry 3
[My account of the funeral of the preceding white witch follows:]
Some South End (of Quincy) women were out to the cemetery after J's (Mary's) funeral, and they said they tried several times to lower her casket and they couldn't do it. They had to dig the hole larger than usual. [I now comment on this informant's statement.] This refers to the burial of a reputed witch who died in 1932 and is a good example of the unreliability of eyewitnesses, espe- cially when these witnesses were expecting something unusual. It should be remembered that by this time a coffin was not lowered into an empty grave, but into a wooden container; hence the width and length of a grave were much larger than the coffin. Another witness, however, said it was only the lowering appa- ratus which refused to work. (Even that would be awesome!) This was probably the case. A third witness said the reason the coffin could not be lowered was that J ''didn't want to go." [FACI, 2ed., 1965, p.711, No. 15374.]
The informant reports the women's account; the editor separately questions it and gives alternative explanations.
Entry 4
There was an old woman who went for a cunjure. She lived in King George and she must have been a good cunjure because she made her living in that way, putting on spells and taking them off. A neighbor lived not far from her house Was hunting squirrels in the squirrel season and he passed near her home in the Woods, and he saw she had a snake tied by the tail hanging up the tree, and she had cut its throat and catching the blood in a small bucket. She wasn't: there. And he said to himself, "Damn you! I always heard you was a cunjure and now I know it." That was about forty years ago. She was a real cunjure. Everybody. Was afraid of that woman, both white and colored. If she came to your house and asked you for anything, it paid you to give it to her. She said, "You're going to lose ten times more than that." [This is called "putting a bad mouth on you."] She went to a neighbor one day and asked for a watermelon and he did not believe in cunjuring. So he didn't give her the watermelon and lost his horse that night. And then on he took off his hat to this woman. I knew both of them.
[Fredericksburg, Va., (71), Ed.; King George Co., Va.,1896.]
Entry 5
(Would you say that the people who are engaged in this kind of work... know much about it?) Dere lotta people workin' 'long dis line dat really don't know much about it. Yessuh, it's lotta people 'long dis line dat know much mo' den ah do, because all of us buy it outa de drug sto' anyway. [Buying from a hoodoo drug store or hoodoo mail-order firm or owning a hoodoo manual does not make a doctor.]
(Would you say that many of them make a good living out of this type of work?)
Yessuh, yessuh - white an' colored heah, ownin' nice homes an' don't do any- thing but dat, plenty nice cars an' plenty servants. [This woman marked "good and "professional(?)" exaggerates, considering me a white hoodoo doctor from New York City with car and servant; car and owner hired locally, servant(:) my skilled contact man Edward trained by me in four cities.]
(Do the white people in this work handle both white and colored?)
Some of 'em an' some of 'em doesn't. [Some doctors are exclusive. Madam Wiley of Memphis - see my interview with her - says, "Mah trade is white."]
Entry 6
It's an ole white gentleman in the neighborhood where I lived down there in Georgia. I lived at Daisy [pronounced it Da'ze'], Georgia, into de country. An' he was said to be, you know, they said he was The god of Liberty County. So when anything happened to the colored people they went to hunt him. I've seen him many a time.
Entry 7
I heard a white man tell this. I don't know whether it is true or not. He said this old lady, she was a witch, her name was Smith. He said he missed the ties that come out from under the streetcar track - he had a lot of old ones in his back yard - so he watched one night to see where they went. He said that old Mrs. Smith came over and got on one and rode it as a horse into her yard. It went right off the ground through the air. He said the next day he went over there - he was afraid of her anyhow - he said, "Mrs. Smith, where did you get this log at?" And she said, "Where do you think I get it at?" And he said, "You rode that log over here last night." She said, "You'd better get out of here or I'll ride you like I did the log." And he said he left, too. We were all scared to death of that old woman.
The log appears in dialogue inside a reported story whose narrator explicitly says its truth is unknown.
Entry 8
[I have four stories about the celebrated Zippy Tull of the Eastern Shore, each told by different informant. The following story, all the material he gave me, came from my hotel manager at Princess Anne, the only white informant in this book. The latter alone makes him memorable in my life, but a favor he also did later made the day doubly a worthy memory. See Zippy Tull in the Index.] This was I would imagine about sixty-five or seventy years ago [before 1936]. This lady [a white woman] was a relative [great-aunt] of mine, [the informant is a white man], she was living in Wicomico County at a little country place by the name of Siloam, Maryland - Wicomico County. She Was going With a young man living in that same neighborhood and they were engaged to be married. There was another girl that this same gentleman was [had been] going with, which of course I can't [do not.care to] call his name, but he was [had been] going with these two girls and they were very much in love with this one particular man. And in order to get the advantage of the [engaged] girl - her name was a Miss B., she [the other girl] tried to find some way to get rid of Miss B., and in doing so, the only way she knew how would be to fix some way to put a spell on her. She had lady friends of course was stopping with Miss B., and also with her, so she got one of these ladies to secure a lock of her hair. And in doing that, Miss B., of course, didn't know that she Was securing this lock of hair. It run on for a little while and she was taken sick. In other words, it was more like her mind - her mind got to be very, very bad, very bad. She consulted doctors frequently but nobody could seem to do her any good. She gradually grow worser in her condition. Of course, the gentleman friend that she had, wasn't paying so much attention to her while her being sick. He figured that wouldn't be the woman for him. He was paying more attention to this other young lady, number two I would call her. But in doing that, this lady tried round different physicians. Finally she couldn't get any relief, she went to see an old [colored] lady by the name of Zippy Tull. She was known for several counties as being a great fortune teller. She could remove spells, as we now call them, from different people; she could put 'em on someone else, if necessary. She consulted Zippy Tull and, in doing that, she [Zippy Tull] told her her troubles, told her what Was causing these troubles. She said, "Well, can I get cured?" She said, "Yes, I can cure you. I can also put this same thing on the one that put it on you." She said, "No, I don't want to do that, I would just love to get well. If I can get well, I feel that that would be the biggest thing in life." "But," she said, "I can tell you how to get well. If you go to the graveyard, your family graveyard, beside your brother that's now dead, there you will find a lock of your hair burried [buried] in the ground with a brick on top of it; there you will find a cord wrapped around a lock of your hair, and just: so.long as that lock of hair stays there, this will gradually work on you; there you'll find a cord which binds that hair perfectly tight. Now, when you go to that grave, don't go until this hour is over - between this hour of twelve and one o'clock at night, and her spirit won't be there or any of her spirits will be there to protect it. You go there at that time. There you dig'in the ground at a certain spot [next to her brother's grave]. You'll find this brick, and under there you look and you'll find a lock of hair just as I have told joo, and you bring it to me. Don't chew tell anyone tha' chew found it, don't tell any of your people tha' chew found it, but bring it back to Zippy Tull and I'll tell you what to do with it." Of course, she was like most people, she felt that anything she could do, you know, to bring her health back to her - she was rejoicing in the fact, if it would do it. But she waited until next morning and she went back to see Aunt Zippy Tull. And when she got there Aunt Zippy said to her, she said, "Well," she said, "you found just what you're looking for?" She said, "Yes, I found it. It was there." She said, "Would joo say that's a lock of your hair?" She said, "Well, it's the same colah and looks like the same hair." She said, "How did joo find it?" "I found it with a little piece of cord wrapped around that hair." "And that cord around the hair, it must be causing you all this trouble, your headaches and your pains; and just so long as that string, cord, was wrapped round that hair, you would have never gotten any better, you would have gradually grown worse. Now then, if you want, I can put the same spell back on the person, which of course you know who it is. I can put it back on them; or, to get rid of your trouble, you must do away with this hair. But chew must first remove that string." And Aunt Zippy Tull - that's how she was known, they all called her Aunt Zippy - she said, "You take this hair and you destroy it by burning it up. And don't let anybody ever have any of your hair, because this same woman will be trying to do the same thing again." This woman, after doing this, she gradually got better. She got well, made a strong healthy woman, and lived to be a quite old age. I would positively say she was around seventy or seventy-five years old when she died. This was the age of about twenty-three-or-four years old when this spell was first put on this woman. Naturally, I know it from actual knowledge. It had been handed down right in the family and we knew this to be a positive fact. This is not a heresay or somebody telling you about it, it's really positive, it's absolutely true. The woman had practically gone crazy and lost her mind. The woman just pulled her hair right out of her head. But her life, it would have been a blank. She went on through life. I don't know her married life of course, I don't know whether that would be necessary now in this particular case or not, but I know this thing Was put on by this woman and was taken off by Aunt Zippy Tull which [who] in those days were looked upon as a great witchcraft and fortune-teller. I would imagine she [Zippy] died between the age of - it's been thirty to forty years ago [before 1936]. But, she was known all over these four counties [Somerset (where we then were), Wicomico, Dorchester and Worcester]. She lived around Siloam; her home was Wicomico County.
Entry 9
Dere's a fore-knowing woman heah at - to Shamrock [Florida]. An' yo' go dere, yo' find dere both black an' white day an' night, an' dey lingering around her place to get a chance to talk with her an' she kin predict. [A fore-knowing woman will also do a little hoodoo work.]
Entry 10
Well, I know of a lady tryin' to poison someone else. An' so I wus told by a gentleman [doctor] that - she goes to work an' takes a tahrahpin [terrapin], a water tahrahpin, cooks this water tahrahpin up, takes this grease of it an' greases the other lady's husband in order to poison this lady [husband's wife]. Well, see, this lady [wife] was a - she happened to be cunnin' enough to not let this man [her husband] git nowhures nigh 'er. Well, he goes back to whure this woman wus. An' so in jist about a - well, say about nine month's time - well, it wus - yes, it wus nine month's time, this woman she has to be taken to the hospital. An' so whenever she got to the hospital the doctors wanted to 'topsy 'er after she died. So whenever she died they finds a tahrahpin wus hung on to this woman's livah. This wus re'lly true. I knowed this woman mahself. That wus in 1926. That happen in Fayetteville, North Carolina. The woman died in the hospital. [The preceding word poison is a technical term unknown to toxicology; it is a concept belonging to the realm of magic thought and action. We shall meet poison again and again, also the concept fixed, and always there will be problems. Why did not the husband have the terrapin hanging to him? The evil-doer intended the terrapin for the wife. How was this intention thwarted? By counter-intention. We are in a strange world - the nature of reality faces us.] She got it back on herself. But how this man turn it back on her, I don't know. But I know how the man told de man's wife to do to not let it be turnt back - for her to not get it, you see.
(What did she -do to get this on him?)
She rubbed it on him.
(All over him?)
No, not all over him. She just rubbed it on him [his privates]. So this fellah he wus supposed to go home to his wife. See, he wus to get this grease on her an' this wus supposed to take onto her, you see. He didn't get it off on his wife. So by his wife bein' cunnin' enough to not let him touch her no way, he goes right back to this woman an' returned this deal right back on her. An so the length of time that it wus supposed tah take - you know, in de nine months - why it taken effect.
(Instead of an actual child it was this terrapin?)
It wus a tahrahpin that wus attached to her livah. [At this point, from the informant's hesitation and manner, her companion's attitude, I suspected that the story must have been a personal experience and so asked for the complete details.] She wus tryin' to git rid of me. So she a - I commence, you know, I'd feel funny. Mah husband, he wouldn't stay at home, you see. I couldn't keep 'im home. Nothin' I could do, you see. I couldn't keep 'im at home. I could do - come in an' clean up [and leave]. An' two children in the home. Workin' ever' day. You see, I couldn't do nothin' atall with 'im. An' so he'd come in; he'd stay in the house for a few minutes. An' so mah mother-in-law, she stayed there with me, an' she says, "Nora," she says, "you'd better watch," she says, "maybe perhaps that woman has done somethin' to Thornton." I says, "Ah shucks!" I says, "Do away with that, mama." I says, "They ain't no woman can do nothin'." I says, "He jis' want to run anyhow." So one day she come to me - I wus drivin' an' ole Ford car. I'd always take him to work ev'ry day, bring 'im back home - backwards an' forewards. So I says to 'im, I says - she stayed home with me, she says, "Nora," she says, "I wan' choo to go off a piece with me." I says, "Go off a piece wid joo, mama?" She says, "Yes." So I says, "All right." An' so that day - so I goes on an' takes mah husband to work an' I rushes right back there. I says, "All right, mama." I says, "I'm ready to go." She got right in - she gets in the car. When she gets in the car, why, I says, "Where you goin'?" She says, "I'm goin' to Dunn [North Carolina]." She says, "No matter where I'm goin'," she said, "you come on an' take me." Well, I felt funny, you know because I know de whole - all of them, you know, that it wus used to such as that [all people who believed in cunjuration], that they did somepin [to protect themselves]. So I says, "All right." So I goes ahead with 'er. An' so we get there, we gets out of the car. An' so we commence goin' through a branch. We stopped the car way out here an' commence goin' [walking] through a branch. I says, "Where you goin', mama?" She said, "That's all right. Joo come on an' go with me." So we goes on acrost to a - so we goes to a branch. An' we wus steppin' acrost tussocks, zhoo know, goin' across. [This is my only encounter with spoken word tussocks: in the U. S. A.] I kep' axin' 'er. I said, "Mama, whar is you goin'?" Well, I wus afraid, joo see. An' she says, "Don't joo be uneasy." But whenever [as soon as] we walks in the house - we come to the door, she walks right up to de man. He wus an' ol' cunjure-man [a white man]. And we walked right to the door. And so he said, "Good evenin', Miss Nora, come in." Well, I looked at 'im. Well, I could have [been] shot [she was so astonished because he knew her name]. Well, I says, "Good evenin'." He says, "Pore thing." He say, "You ought to have been here long ago." [This is a usual opening remark by doctors.] He says, "You're tormented." He caught me by the hand an' says, "Have a seat, chair." Well, he drawed his chair right up. He says a - he says, "Well, you is certainly in a bad condition."
[This is another usual remark by doctors.]
I says, "In a bad condition! Why?" Well, she [the mother-in-law] still hadn't tole me anything, you know. So I says, "Why you say I'm in a bad condition?" He says, "They's a brown-skin woman that's givin' you lots of trouble," an' he says, "you are [something]." He says, "Now, I'm gon'a work for you." He says, "I seen you comin' here." He says, "You been on your road here since one a'clock." I says, "Yes?" Well, I know'd I left home at one a'clock sure enough I says, "Yes sir." An' so he says a - "Well," he says, "the thing for you to do, he says a, "tonight when you get home," he says, "whenever [as soon as] your husband comes home tonight," he says, "he ain't goin' hardly wait to eat his supper before he wan'a go to bed." I says, "Yes?" I looked at 'im. I says, "Wan'a go to bed?" He says, "Yes, '' he says, "but don't choo go." He says, "Don't joo go to bed - find something to do. Keep ev'ry night alone for two or three nights - keep away from him an' he'll care [carry] this right back." He says, "Pore thing," he says, "I'm sorry for you." Well, I go on back. I says, "Well," I says, "now, if he [the husband] don't do this, I know he's [the cunjure man is] not tellin' de truth." So I goes on back home. I talked with mah mother-in-law goin' on back all the way. She says, "Well, I knowed whare I wus car'in' you." She says, "Lots of people would say their mother-in-law wouldn't do that, you see, but it's a shame for him to do like that." I goes on back home. Sure enough, he comes in from work an' goin' out - you know how this house is, out on the porch, an' washin' his face. He - I had supper on the table. He couldn't - it looked like he wus nervous or something. He couldn't eat. He - "Come on," Nora, "let's go to bed." I says, "No." I says, "My land of mercy, I've got all these clothes to pack up here." I says, "I can't go." "I'se wantin' to get it." I says, "No." I says, "No, whenever I ain't got no work to do" - we jist had a big racket about it. I says, "When I ain't got no work to do," I says, "you is out an' gone." I says, "You can git out an' go." Well, he worried me around, around, there till about eleven a'clock, jist like he [the cunjure man] said. At eleven a'clock he says, "I believe I'll walk down to the depot." I says, "All right." He walked on out. But when he came back 'twus that next morning. All right. An' about two month's time another girl came to me. She says, "Oh-oh-oh, she says, "Thornton an' Mary is raisin' a new family." I says, "They is?" I says, "That's nice." She says, "I suppose it's so - I'm only tellin' whut I hear." An' so mah mother-in-law - in a few days mah mother-in-law come to me. She says, "Oh," she says, "Fannie [someone sent by Mary] come here to get some medicine." I says, "Did you give it to her?" She says, "Yes, I give it to her." I says, "All right." So - I still - so she hadn't heard still whut he [the cunjure man] told me. I told her some an' I kept some. [The mother-in-law was not present during the actual interview between the informant and the cunjurer.] So sure enough, about - well, she taken ill on about Saturday. So on Saturday he came to me an' he says, "Nora, I guess you're satisfied." I says, "Whut's de matter?" "They say you has poisoned Mary to death." I says, "Oh! beg your pardon." I says, "Poison?" I says, "I haven't paid one nickel out to poison nobody." I says, "If you think that joo would want to die yourself [be hanged or electrocuted for poisoning a person]." I says, "Whut's de good of a head an' you don't use it?" I says, "I jis' as well take a knife an' cut de thing off an' throw it away." So when I said dat, he says, "Well, you's poisoned her." I says, "Whut?" He says, "I'm gon'a do ever'thing I can for 'er." I says, "Well, that's all right - go ahaid an' do it." So on Saturday night he comes in - she wusn't dead, she wus in the hospital. Well, I wus workin' on Fairmont Hill, that's why I heard it - I could come down, the hospital sets a-way back - an' I could hear her screamin' murder, an' she's screamin'. They said, whutevah it wus, it would rise up in her - jis' rise up jist like that [from her stomach towards the throat] an' go back down an' rise up. Well, the doctors begged an' begged her fathah to let 'em 'topsy her. So when they 'topsied her they said it Was a tahrahpin [about six inches in diameter] wus hangin' onto her livah. So he came in that Sunday night an' set down by me an' set on the side of de bed, an' he busted out in a-cryin'. He says, "Well, you have killed her." I says, "Well, thank God! My prayers is answered." That's all I said. So mah mother-in-law come acrost a-laffin' to me. She says, "Nora, she's gone." I says, "Yes!"
Entry 11
My father used to go with a lady name Lida and she got tired of him and he wus goin' with another one named Ella. Well, Miss Lida didn't like it and she sent to papa's house for him to come around to hers, and she knew that papa loved whiskey, and so papa went round there and she went back in the kitchen and brung out some drinks. And him and her sat there and drink. But while she was in the kitchen she took some sweet spirits of nitre and put it in papa's drink. Well, he didn't know no diff'rent, 'cause it was strong, and he jis' drank it right on down. And while he was asleep she took some of his hair and - she cut it out - and if you take a person's hair and put it in runnin' water it'll run 'em crazy. And so she cut some of papa's hair. So when he woke up he says, "Well," he says, "Lida, I didn't know I was goin' to sleep," he says, "please excuse me." She says, "Well, that's all right Sam," she says, "you used to come to see me and go to sleep." And he didn't think anything of it and went home. And about three days after, he begin to feelin' funny for some cause or another. And every time he'd take a drink he would - seemed like he wouldn't have any sense at all. When he'd come home, seemed like if anybody would say anything to him - at least you wouldn't have to say.anything to him - the least little fault he'd find, he'd wan'a start fightin'. And Miss Ella couldn't under- stand it. She says, "Sam, what's ailin' you?" And he'd cuss and rip and rare, and the same way he'd beat us. He'd make us all pull off our clothes and he'd take his belt - he'd always wear a heavy belt - and take it off and double it and beat us with it. And so one day a man came to the house and Miss Ella, he was a white man, he claimed to be a fortune-teller, and Miss Ella Was telling him how papa would act. And he said he would come back when papa was home. And so when he came back he looked at papa and he told Miss Ella, he says, "Ella," he said, "there's some- thing awful wrong with Sam, '' he says, ''but I'll tell you wha' choo kin do, '' he says, "zhoo can go to Conway, South Carolina, to a certain man, and he'll tell you exactly what to do to cure him." And so Miss Ella did. And she took papa to Conway. And before they got there - before they got in the gate, the man said, "Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Don't come in here with all that mess on you," he say. "Wait a minute! Don't bring that in mah house. And he went out there and he took a wist [whisk] broom and brushed papa off. And he went in there. And the man told Miss Ella that the woman [Miss Lida] that he used to go with, he says, that she still wanted him but she was mad because she [Miss Ella was going with him. And he said that if he didn't get a piece of her clothes and wrap it up with some sulphur and her track - just one would be all right, the right track, a tablespoonful of her right track - he said that there was no way to cure him but dat. And put it in a little box or can or paper bag with some sulphur and a piece of her belongings, and some cayenne pepper, and mix it all up and put it over her head wure she had to go - like wure she had to pass under. And well, Miss Ella couldn't do it, because she knew that Miss Lida didn't like her. So she had her little boy to go to Miss Lida's house one day and tell Miss Lida that a certain woman wanted to see her up at de corner. And she left home and just as soon as she did, James, Miss Ella's little boy, got her track, her right track, and put it in a box. And Miss Lida came back. She says, "There wasn't anyone to see me." He said, "Yes mam, it was, it was a lady." And then he ast her fer a drink of water and den she went in dere to get him a drink of water, and he went in the front room, and he took a pair of scissors and cut a piece of her dress and he took that. And then -
(Howoldwasthelittlebov?)
He was nine years old. And he took it back to Miss Ella. And Miss Ella got some cayenne pepper, hot pepper, and some sulphur, and mixed it up all together. And she sent papa there [to Miss Lida] with it. And while she was back in the kitchen papa took and put it - jis' like that [pointing to the door], you see, put it over the door. And, the man [in Conway] told him if he would do that and leave it there, in nine days time he would be cured, you know, of the worst part of it, then to come back to him. And sure enough, in nine days time papa went back to him. And he said, "Now Sam, '' he says, "take some of your urine," he says, "in a little bottle and put it under her doorstep," and he says, "she'll come to you and confess." And papa did that. But she came while papa was at work. And she sit down and told Miss Ella just how she had done. And she said, "If you will jist please," she says, "take whatever you got on me away," she says, "I'll never do it agin." And Miss Ella had a chance to take the bottle up from under her doorstep and we didn't have any more trouble with her.
Entry 12
Sometimes some have strong minds. People be's sick and de give up quick. Some'll be sick and ever'thing go along and dey git well wit coal oil, and think they gittin' de right things. Mostly de 'fect yo' kin take on a man is by his planic [planet] and de time he was born under de moon and so forth, and git his mind. I kin go roun' sell things but ef ah cain't git a man mind, ah cain't do nuthin' wit him. Dat's right. Yo' gotta git him tuh believe whut yo' say, woman or man: [If he say,] "Well, ah know [as] much abou't [about it] as yo' do," dat wouldn't do me no good, [therefore] you say, "Well, go on about chure business." Nuthin' to it ["ah cain't do nuthin' wit him"].
(Are there many cunjuremen - what they call cunjuremen - here in town?)
Dat's all dey call 'em cunjuremens. Dey call me hoodoo - sure dey do, 'cause de little chillun - ah'm goin' long de street, "Mama, har de hoodoo doctor, har de hoodoo doctor."
(Are they frightened of you?)
Yeah, de little chillun is. Dey runs dey do's - oh yeah, run an' hide. Well, ah use to be a trudin [truant] officer fo' de Cath'lic school and dat's one thing make 'em 'fraid me anyhow.
(You used to round them up.)
Yeah, that was out in Prinship. I used to be in Prinship - fo' years - ah use to run a root store right chere on this same street, only it's down dere next to Davis Avenue - dat little shop down dere - ah be dere fo' years. Ah know dese people very well - all dese people - dis whole country. (I suppose they are still going to believe that for sometime to come, aren't they?) [A leading question but not with this man.] Oh, yes. (Aren't these children that are going to high school - are they smart?) [My sudden change here does not fool him.l Oh, yeah, they 'fraid too. Yeah, they believe in everything - like, it's whut chure parents teach you. If they teach at home that you'll git cunjured or git hoodooed, all, even de little chillun come and look fo' it. School teachers don' teach 'em dat; might as well teach 'ém dat 'cause they believe it all dere lives. Dey go to whut dey call de Old Age Assistance. Some people go down dere and de ain't even got sense enough to talk to de woman dat talkin' to 'em; wanta have dere Way about it. Some of them'll say they been tricked, want de doctor, but "no need a-send me a doctor 'cause ah been hoodooed and you have to send a hoodoo doctor to me" - tell de medical doctor dat. "You can't do nuthin' fo' me; I done tried ever' doctor in town, I ain't gittin' no better. You have to send a hoodoo doctor 'cause somebody done hoodooed me." And she ain't got a thing but heart trouble or something like that, dropsy or something - ain't nobody kin do her no good - or TB's. Dey'll do dat. Dis heah is de wust place fo' hoodoos you find.
(What do the doctors say about - what do they say about it?)
Doctors don't have nuthin' to say about it 'cause when dey go to 'em dey'll up and tell him so. You know when de jedge can't work with 'em, nobody else ain't.
(Well, how many white people believe in it?)
Dere's a-plenty of 'em believe in it - jest like we colored - dat's de biggest thing they believes in - cunjuration - it's nuthin' but a ism. De whole entire thing is whut a man's mind is - dat chew think, dat chew believe - whut worries on yo' mind. Take a man used to drinkin' or take a man used to runnin' around, hit'll prey on his mind - he ain't satisfied unless he into it. It's de same way - don't care whut chew do - if a man got a wife and she git sick, de fust thing he say, "Somebody's done somepin tuh mah wife" - or 'Somebody done somepin tuh me and I lost mah job, ah done dis-and-dat." [Then I] sell more John de Conker 'en [then] evah - dat's de biggest seller ah got - an' ah [even] sells it to - ef Jedge [Somebody'sl fool enough to buy it. ah let him have it. [I have underlined many examples of what a hoodoo thinks about medical doctors or physical doctors - see Doctor, not Doctor in Index. Doctor Zorro of Norfolk, Va., in my interview with him later, estimates colored believers at 90 and white believers at 40 percent. In mv interview later with Faith Doctor of Little Rock, Ark., he says, "Ah tell yo' mah deah fren' - de white race, ah would give it an even break, fifty outa ev'ry hunderd; an' in de colored, nine outa ev'ry ten."]
These terms occur in the informant's own reply and explanation; interviewer questions and editorial comments remain separate.
Entry 13
It's jes' lak [like] if ah'm runnin' a place of business an' ah has some enemies - yo' know yo' has enemies ever'where yo' go. If yo' large 'nuff to bother 'bout yo'll have enemies. Ah kin have some enemies an' ah kin be runnin' a place of business - jes' sellin' fish san'wishes an' all dat kinda junk. Well, a lot'a people would hate me on dis - yo' see, ah'm makin' mo' money den dey can an' dey'll hate me. Well, all right. Dey'll go, prob'bly uptown an' tell a false' on me an' have me put in jail. Yo' see, ah done lock up an' ah'm got'a pay out a bunch of money den an' come out if ah got it or prob'bly make time on it. Well, whensomevah ah git out - well, ah may go back to mah business agin. Well, now heah dey come agin after me. Understan' - heah dey come agin after me. Well, now, I kin go tuh de graveyard zactly twelve a'clock at night. Now, ah'm goin' to mah peoples - where dey's buried. An' after ah git dere ah walks five feet into de graveyard. Then - if' yo'll 'low [allow] ma ah'll show yo' axely [actually] whut ah mean [his voice turned from me while he demonstrates]. Ah walks dis way [he walks]. Now, heah's de gate chere. Well, ah walks [he walks] five feet from de gate an' when ah git inside [that near] de gate ah turns round [he turns] an' backs up five feet [he backs up] till ah git inside de ceme- tery. Ah wheel round right quick an' de first grave ah'll put mah eyes on, ah'll go to dat grave an' ah makes me a big round ring at de head of dat grave. [He acts out everything.] An' after ah make me a big round ring at de head of dat grave [as a protection against spirits], ah take me a solid fifty-cent piece an' put it jes' as fur down in dat grave as ah kin git it. An' after ah put it down dere mah hand would come up wit all de dirt-cover ovah dere [the dirt sticking to the half dollar]. Den ah takes a eatin' fo'k [table fork] an' ah sticks it in dat grave. Well, ah went to mah mother [her grave] to control her mind of might to dash dese peoples' mind from me an' keep dem from botherin' me, but dose [his people] are daid. Now, dose folks are daid - like dey say hants an' spirit an' all like dat. Well, dey come to form - to skel'ton, see. Well, now heah about three yeahs ago ah had a sister - she came down heah an' dere peoples in dis town will tell yo' dis very day, white and colored. Well, dey 'rest her two-three time of drunk'. She could take jis' dat much of whiskey [demonstrates] an' jes' go to her haid, an' she start to call anything come ovah her. Well, now, she was fixed, dey tell me in Jacksonville ~ now, dat's whut she tole me some other [person] did to her. [Alcoholism is usually caused by someone putting a spell on you - see Drinking-spell in Index.] An' ah could go an' git her sometime two an' three a'clock in de morning - bring her back. An' ah have went round to diff'rent people I knowed dat give 'er dat stuff an' tell 'em don't let her have none. Well, she got to find dis stuff but hit don't be until de change of de moon. When dat moon come to be a quarterfull, den dat's de time she commence goin' on, commence goin' on. Well, now, when dat moon done vanish 'way an' gone, she jes' as good, jes' as pleasant an' happy as she kin be. Well, she wus told to go to de graveyard - she lives in Jacksonville - an' when she git to de graveyard - now, our mother's daid - our mother died of witch- craft - whut chew call roots. She died of dat an' ah kin splain it tuh yo' how, whut caused her to die [he explains this later]. An' dey tole her to go to de graveyard an' after she got to de graveyard, tuh Walk five feet inside the graveyard an' wheel round right quick, an' de first grave she saw, she take a solid fifty-cent piece an' push it jis' as fur down in de grave as she kin git it an' take her han's out, an' in takin' her han's out befo' her han' git to de top, git jis' a lettle bit dat dirt - see, root [dig] fo' it [with the coin]. Well, now, dere's nuthin' dey put wit dat dirt. An jis' stick dat eatin' fo'k in dere an' leave it, chew see. Dat eatin' fo'k yo' wanta leave. Well, now, she got de dirt - dat's whut chew call buying dirt from de daid. [We shall meet many examples of the spirit of the dead being paid off with coins, but here the fork - silver-plated or steel, is both payment and protective device.]
(What did she do with that dirt then?)
She jis' take it an' put it on her an' tote it, jes' tote it - she didn't put anything in de worl' wit it. [Usually, this graveyard dirt would be wrapped in a piece of paper and worn sewed up in a very small cloth bag and called a hand or toby or mojo - these of great variety and purpose - many examples of them being given later.]
(How was your mother hurt did you say?)
Now, mah mother - dat wus in 1919 in Tallahasse, Florida. We lived in 362 Caldwell [?] Avenue. Well, during dat den de street wus name No'th McCommins [?] Avenue. Mah mother she wus poisoned with whut ah may call dung - it's a bottle of your dung. Jes' lak if ah go to de bathroom right dere an' use de - well, her stuff was taken an' it was placed into a bottle. An' after it was placed into dis bottle, jes' nuthin' but hit - an' it wus a cork stopper wus placed in de top of dis bottle, whut chew call to stop it up airtight dat no air in de worl' couldn't git in it, an' it wus buried to de no'th corner of our house. Mah mother lived an' suffered - lived an' suffered fo' [four] yeahs. But we tried doctors from Thomasville, Florida - Dr. McClintook supposed to be as good a doctor as evah walked out - a medical doctor de horsepital - we tried him. We tried all other doctors an' none couldn't do her no good. Mah grandmother went to a place you call Quincy, Florida - out in de country to a fellah by de name of Mr. McClain. She went dere to him.
(White or colored?)
White - he wus white - went out dere tuh him. An' he tole mah grandmother, he said, "Ah been layin' heah lookin' at de condition of yore daughter." [He was a forseer or foreknower.] Dat's whut he tole mah grandmother. He said, "Ah been laying heah lookin' at de condition of yore daughter," he say, "fo' [for] munts an' munts an' she been sufferin' fo' othah people." He said, "De people dat's doin' her dis dirt is comin' in her house eve' other mawnin', bahrin' [borrowing] a match or bahrin' some salt or bahrin' some peppah an' stuff." He said, "Dat is to he'p [help] build dis stuff whut dey got in de ground." Now, he tole her, said, "Yo' go back home." She said - but now dis man wouldn't take no money out chure han' - he didn't take a dime - but chew owed him whut he charged to do. Yo' didn't pay him what- somevah he git fo' doin' yore 'mount of work. When he git done wit his - whut yo' want to have him tuh do - yo' goes back home. He given yo' a piece of some- thin' look like a five-dollar gold piece in a black cloth an' he got dis money by de air. Dat's de way he worked it, by de air - he re'lly did it hisself. [See in Index, Doctor, payment of.] Well, he tole mah grandmother - she go back to de house an' look up on de south corner of yore house, an' he say, "Yo'll find a quart bottle wit some dung in it." An' he say, "Yo' take dat quart bottle an' unstop it," an' he say, "po dat stuff out of it." He say, "When yo' po' it out of it," he say, "then yo' come back to me." Well, mah grandmother po'd it out an' mah mother then commence tuh - her bowels den commence movin'; her bowels wus locked den [before that], yo' see. Well, she went back to him an' he give her some kind of medicine - ah don't know whut it wus. But she give him somepin - she had a twenty-dollah bill dressed, mah grandmother did fo' mah mother. Now, dis man tole her, said, "Now, let her tote dis on her as long as she live, an' nobody won't hurt her no mo'." Well, leastways, she died from it - she lived 'bout a couple of months afterwards, after dis stuff was po' out de bottle, but she died. [How the twenty-dollar bill was dressed (prepared magically) by the doctor I do not know, but my skeptical nature refuses to believe he returned it to grandmother. One of many ways of dressing money for oneself will be found in margin-title Cast It Into Oblivion. The medicine given to grandmother could have been black draft or Epsom salts both commonly used by doctors in such situations. The woman had been dying - constipation was not the cause. For a similar hopeless case, a poignant one, see margin-title Doctor Assists Death.] (Well, how did the man get his money when you paid him - how did he get that money?) He tole mah aunt an' mah grandmother to - he give dem somepin look like a five-dollah gold piece an' [also] it was a black rag; seemed to me [when I saw it later] that it was a han'chief. He tole her, said, "Yo' take dis an' go back home an' leave dis on de table - dis five-dollah piece yo' see - on de table." Well, it looked like to me it was five dollahs, but he didn't tell her no five dollahs, but ah called it five-dollah gold piece. [The coin was a fake. I comment here while checking transcription with cylinder - "speaks very rapidly."] But he tole her, when she give it [his fee] to him, say, "Lay dis [piece] on de table an' spread dis black rag ovah it - jes' spread it [rag] ovah it [piece] an put chure money [fee] on top of dat an' tie it up, an' walk out chure room." He say, "Ah'll git it, don't chew worry," he say, "because mah working is de air, star an' de moon." He say, "Ah don't work jes' natch'al comin' to a person." He say, "Ah kin do mah work an' not even go to you. Yo' kin jes' only write me an' yo' got to tell me whut chew want done - jes'write me an'ah'll come to yuh [in the spirit]." Dat's whut he tole mah grandmother and aunt. But anyway de money didn't leave out de house an' he didn't come an' git it - but didn't nobody carry it to him. But when we went back in de room de next morning, de money wus gone, an' most all de three of us wus in de house - mah aunt, mah grandmother an' me, 'scusin' mah mother whut wus sick. He re'lly got dat money.
Entry 14
Ah take de name of de party who havin' spells so terrible it seems tuh be. Ah write dat name seven times, either seven or nine, but then this is a prayin' job now. When ah write that name seven times ah prays de seven prayers - de same prayer seven times an' in less than nine hours he'll 'bout come tuh life.
(What prayer - any particular prayer?)
Yessuh. Dis pa'tic'lar prayer, dat's in a secret prayerbook.
(You take any prayer you Want to choose?)
Yessuh, yo' kin look through an' see which is de best one fo' sech case, accordin' tuh whatevah yo' likely tuh pray on. [Thinking he had finished I stopped my machine - he repeats a line or two of prayer.] Dat's page 51 though mostly.
(It's a prayer of the Episcopal Church, isn't it?)
Yessuh. [The secret prayerbook was The Book of Common Prayer - certainly not from page 51, which begins with The Thanksgiving of Women after Child-birth; probably one of Collects from page 49.] Dat's a gurontee tuh put a person in a house if they wanta git in there. Well, we take dis pink luck success an' de white luck success an' have them tuh pass an' break a bottle in front of de do' an' in de next six or seven days de house is his, if it's no one in it.
(Where do you get this luck success?)
At de Crackerjack Drug Sto' down heah at - dat's where ah deals at mostly. An' though ah nevah did desire to handle so much of de mean stuff, but some- times yo' have tuh do those mean things tuh git at the good ones. An' ah uses de hair of a white person into a colored person's ear fo' dizzy haids, an' ah use a colored person's hair into de white person's haid fo' dizzy haids. Sometime dey think yo're bumin' candle on 'em. [In the New Orleans area dizzy head is usually caused by someone burning a candle on you - see Headache in Index.] So ah take a little of de white person's hair, about say an' inch, an' stick in his [colored person's] ear, or ah'll take de colored person's hair an' put it in de white person's ear - [claps hands once] jes' dat quick [the dizziness leaves]. [For Negro hair in white person's ear as earache cure, see FACI,2ed., p.201; 1st ed., p.241.] Well, about burning de candle on jah - tuh put de candle out, ah take rivah watah, rain watah an' ditch watah or well watah, anything lak dat, jes' so it's three watahs mixed together, an' ah pass dat ovah dere haid three times dis way an' den three times de othah way an' make him wash his haid good wit it, an' it seems tuh been workin' out very well so fur. [Many doctors and spirituals in the New Orleans area make their holy water - usually they bless it - this three-waters rite being one way of making it.] (You bring that water over his head three times forward and three times back- ward?) Dat's right.
(What will that do about that candle then?)
Well, it supposed tuh put it out. Yo' git relief to de haid. [For other methods to put out candle, see Candle in Index.] Use a green candle, at least ah does, on Mondays an' Wednesday an' Fridays fo' success. Dat green candle dat's mo' fo' success. An' den with the green candle - yo' doesn't light the candle with a match, yo' git van-van [a hoodoo perfune]. Dat's whut ah use, van-van, an' put a little in de saucer an' light de van-van an' hold de candle to dat, an' den make yore prayer, whatevah wish yo' wanta make, an' den set dat dere an' yo' supposed tuh have a success from Monday up to Saturday. Burn dat Monday, not de same candle dough - burn dat whole one out Monday, an' de whole one out agin Wednesday, an' de whole one out Friday. An' den Saturday yo'll have a success in receiving a payment, if it's nuthin' but a little job in order to make a dollah or so.
(Do you light that candle at any particular hours?)
On Monday yo' light it at six a'clock, an' on Wednesdays yo' light it at nine a'clock, an' on Fridays at twelve a'clock noon [light them with the growing Of the day].
(That is just for general success?)
Yessuh. If someone is fixed an' dey husban' an' wife doesn't agree at home very well ah have them tuh burn a white candle - if dey kin burn it in dere home. Some of 'em, dey cain't burn it in de home - ah'll burn dat fo' dem. Ah'll have dem tuh hold de candle an' ah ask God tuh bless it, an' den let dem burn dat. Dat's tuh make de husban' an' wife agree an' stop squabblin' an' goin' on. Dat's de white candle.
(Do you burn that at any special time?)
Yessuh - ah burns that at three a'clock.
(Any special day, I mean.)
Yessuh - fo' peace, ah burns dat on Tuesday.
(If he has left, this is to bring him back?)
Yessuh - if he's gone an' yo' have de picture of him, well, dey take it an' turn it against de wall. Turn de face of de picture against de wall an' write his name nine times an' put it in de bottle, an' put essence of van-van on dere with the same amount of Floridy [Florida] watah, an' shake dat an' set it down on de flo' undah de picture, jes' lak de pictures up dere an' yo' set dat bottle undah dere. An' ever' time yo' shake it, it'll upset his mind till he returns. Dat's been proven. Ah don' wanta talk nuthin' dat ain't been proven. (In writing that man s name down nine times, how do you mean you write it - just one name right after the other?) No, suh - write this this way three times. Swing yore papah roun' an' write it de whole six times. De first three times yo' write it right straight that Way, an' den whirl it ovah again an' den write it six times. Dat'll return him back. Then yo' fold dat good an' keerful an' put it in de bottle an' put de Floridy watah an' de same amount of Floridy, yo' put that amount of van-van. Dat's de essence of van-van. An' when yo' shake that, well, no doubt it may be three or fo' days befo' de party returns - depend on de distance dey are. But when they shake that until the papah come aloose, it's okay. An' if he's a long [distance] we gen'ral'y write that with red ink an' that returns him.
(Can you give me a little account of your work - about that healing?)
Mostly a healer, dat's mostly whut ah am, a healer. When it come tuh lawsuits or any othah little home upset, well, ah jes' makes dat ovah. But mah main work is a healer. Ah gen'ral'y do de most of mah work wit mah necked [naked] han'. If a person come tuh me wit a pain in dey laig or dey arm, anywhere, ah lay dat han' on 'em an' pray, an' rub up in it an' he git up an' go 'way, say in about three minutes. Dat's mah main work. [Rub up instead of down is unusual.]
(You use an altar you say. Do you do anything with the altar?)
No suh, ah jes' stan's in front of de altar. (Do you wear any costume or anything of that sort when you are doing that work?) Nuthin' but de beads - prayer beads [he shows a rosary].
(With the little cross on them.)
Yessuh, dat's right.
(Do you wear anything on your head?)
Nuthin' but a little cap - a little black cap.
(Like a littie skull cap?)
Yessuh. (How did you get your power to do these things? Did someone teach it to you or were you initiated into it or were you just born that way?) [This is not a leading question; I had asked it too often - the answer always being the same.] Jes' nachally bo'n dat way - nevah went tuh school nary a minute in mah life. (This man who was just in here is a healer. He only knew a few things to tell me, but he might be a good contact man. End of 1578.)
Entry 15
Now, I think I'll almost explode de whole situation - it's mighty rough on a man's belief. I've been what you might call a globetrotter for about 20 or 30 years. I've spent my life rambling over de world. I'm a descendant from de 'foretime Indians. Well, naturally, we believe in the great virtue of roots, herbs and bark - that is, for medical purposes. But I find after I settled here in dis part of de world dat de people got a great belief in 'em doing wonderful things. These boys that - the big fellow that you met yesterday, he always runs up to see me every time he gets a little strained there. He's one of these hoodoo doctors - so he claims - but my belief about it is just actually where dey work is de will power that you got over de person that you delivering 'em to. Yo' kin take the root - well, all of 'em has some legend behind of 'em. They believe in dat and no sooner you get dat belief, why, they will do wonders for you. If you haven't got dat confidence in em, why, dey's no more than the ordinary root. But I finds through the southern part of this country, everybody is got some belief about 'em that-a-way. And I pretty well knows the growth of 'em - where dey kin be found and all. Dat's why I got acquainted with dese fellows. Dat's why I coming up dere to find out different kind of - the way dey believes, dat's, actually just what it'll do; anything they believe in, you get their belief in it. [This man, a part-time seller of roots, wanted to become acquainted with the beliefs of his customers and their patients.] Course when dey practicing dat witchcraft and all dat junk on de people, you gotta prepare your victim for you, see - you must have a go-between that prepares him for de shock dat's coming off. Well, den natural after it's passed on, you come and relieve de situation and there's no law in the world then that make him believe that you can't do those wonderful things. Well, that's just the way that I've always taken it, and since I've been here I've found that everybody, nearly, has a belief in some kind of a root or know the virtues of it.
(What State were you born in by the way?)
Well, I was born in Oklahoma. Course I left there when I was quite small. I never knew anything about my people till I was round about 27 years old. And after I found out, I made a couple of trips back dere. I brought my mother over here - she's only been dead about five years - 102 year old she was... Through here you meet an awful lot of 'em that's, you know, in that practice, selling roots and digging 'em and using 'em for different purposes - most all of 'ems in the hoodoo business. Lot of 'em comes up around dere to see me a lot of times." I do painting and decorating and I'm a mechanic too, but I just know de names of 'em and most of the natures concerning 'em - what they are in shape or de form dey is and what they kin be used for. Lot of 'em run around there time after time to see me about different ones. (Well, where did you learn these stories about them - from your own people, the stories about these roots?) [If from your own people sounds tricky, it is not intentionally so - see Introduction.] About dese roots - some of 'em and some I didn't. Now, we have a root chere, hit's well known all over de world. It's a grass, it grows with a small leaf, it's called the blood plant [the bloodroot, Sanguinaria canadensis] and inside the leaf it looks like it circled with blood. Well, now, you take over in de old countries, everybody over dere believes that a hemorrhage or any kind of a bleeding or issue from de flesh can be stopped in a few minutes with a tea made from that plant. Well, they claim the reason why is it's circled - well, that bloodstain, it came from when Christ was killed, when He was hung on de Cross. A man was driving nails in His feet, he got his hands bloody and when he finished he just bent down and wiped them right there at the foot of the Cross, and by Him hanging there bleeding, that from then on that grass sprung and after that it always showed a bloody stain. And they claim up until this day, it will cure any kind of bleeding or any kind of issue that-a-way. It's used purposely for that and nothing else that I know of, but a lot of these hoodoo fellows use it for other purposes - but it is, that's the legend of it. You put it in some water and steep it - the water looks like blood when you take it. (Have you heard that if a person thinks he is going to be hurt, that he can do something to protect himself?) The onliest way for him to protect hisself is the will power he's gotta have. He kin go right to de same person that really is going to fix him through [for] somebody else, and go to dem and just get him a bag of roots. Now, if he's got the confidence, if he's got 'em, nothing will hurt him. As long as he keeps that bag on him and feels that confidence in it, there's nothing they going to do. The moment he lose this bag, why den he's all to pieces - almost crazy, you see, because he knows that's what is going to happen to him...
(What tribe did you say you came from?)
From de Crowitans. (The Crowitans. Well, do the full-blooded colored people believe the same thing that you are telling me about this?) [My mind must have been tired! Fortunately, I do not think he understood the implication of my unfortunate and meaningless full-blooded. This man, like Doctor Johnson just interviewed in Richmond, was both Indian and Negro.] Yessiree - they believe that right out - positively you can't get it out of their heads - they really believe that - no way in de world to change their ideas about it. It's half of dere religion, believing in dis hoodoo stuff.
(Well, they don't believe in it as much as they used to, though?)
No, naturally, they are getting out of it some, but mighty little different you kin see today from what it was 35,40 or 50 years ago. It's actually in 'em, it's impossible to remove it from them. Why, I've talked with some of these graduates and colleges and stuff right here in this city and they are just as deep in it as their grandmother and father was - believes part of it if they don't believe it all. They've got some belief about that supernatural part, the roots and the herbs and stuff of dat kind. [Norfolk, Va., (470), 477:2...480:1.] [The belief in spirits is the foundation of hoodoo, conjuration, witchcraft, rootwork and similar superstitions. Everywhere throughout this investigation spirits are mentioned or assumed.]
Entry 16
My uncle, he was awful scared of ghos'es, and he stayed that-a-way for about three year'. After them three year' was up he sent and got some man, who never tried religion, to see if he couldn't do somepin. So he went and got this fellah - de fellah come from down de South. He got him to see if he couldn't break him from being so scared. So we went and got some graveyard dust, sand, got a rabbit's foot or somepin - this fellah told him a graveyard rabbit, and took and fix it up [dressed it] for him. He took the rabbit foot and put it in a little bag and put de sand in there with it. He was to take it and wear on a belt. About two year' he got he'd see 'em right on but he wasn't scared of 'em.
Entry 17
Mah brother had a way of goin' way out in de woods to see a girl an' mah mother had tole him 'bout goin' by de graveyard. So he said he wasn't afraid. So mah father tole him, say, "One dese nights one dem ghost is gon'a run yo'." He says, "Well, it'll jes' be two runnin'." So he went on dere by hisself an' he kep' continyin' to go out dere. So one night - it was 'bout two miles from de house - a ghost got after him. He knew it was a ghost because usually when a ghost gits in behin' yo' yore hair stand on yore haid - but it don't stand, it feel lak it standin'. An' so, jes' as he stepped out, dis ghost got behin' 'im. He said it was first large and then it was small. An' he say he looked at it - he say, "Ah knowed that was nuthin' nachur'l." He says, "Hit's no need tuh run 'cause if ah run it would run too." So he thought dat once [he] hear our grandfather say whenever anything gits after yo' lak dat, always make it tuh de fork of de road. So he turn roun' an' he let it follow him till he got tuh de fork of de road. When he got to de fork of de road, he said hit couldn't go any further 'cause he missed it. An' so ever since then always, when ah'm out anywhere an' ah see any- thing that ah knows not nachur'l, ah will always make it tuh de fork of de road an' dey can't follow me any further.
The informant narrates a reported ghost pursuit; the account does not establish a verified encounter or protective effect.
Entry 18
I know of a man one time, he was not scared of spirits, and he said one night that he was going through the woods and he saw a ghost and he stopped. And after stopping he went around and sit on a [fallen] tree. And he made believe that he was asleep. And in the meantime this ghost came and sit on the same tree with him, and the ghost re'lly went to sleep according to his belief because he was snoring. And this man said that he got up and walked to this ghost - he did not put his hand on him though - he jumped at him and yelled hard and s'aid, 'What are you doing sleeping here!" And that ghost jumped up then and outrun the Word of God.